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  • #11,601
  • Edited 12:06pm Oct 15, 2022 5:18am | Edited 12:06pm
So the scores from reputable prop firms ranges from 3.2 to about ca. 7, so from FTMO to MFF. Thus the upper limit ranges too from the FTMO limit of 17.6% to MFF limit of 32.8%. So whenever a trader is doing more profits within a month he would be better just trading his own personal account, as this is trade-off point for every trader.
  • #11,602
  • Oct 15, 2022 5:22am Oct 15, 2022 5:22am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Is my math pretty close TrAndy? Now, if you don't pull from the personal account the first month, but wait an extra 30 days and hit the same targets, now it is a completely different ball game, correct?
You need to factor in Euler figure as you get some different results here. But overall assumption is correct. You need to calculate with 2.718 when you do compounding.
  • #11,603
  • Oct 15, 2022 5:34am Oct 15, 2022 5:34am
Quoting TrAndy1
I know it is only 2.5k equivalent. That is why I said it is best for starters in the prop firm space to generate sone cash flow from profits. If you compare Overview Funding Program with FTMO where the score of FTMO is only 3.2 it means you need to do 15% on a 100k account first before you get funded. On OFP you already would have 25% of 15k profits in your pockets. So doing challenges on other prop firms than OFP are much more difficult to achieve than just trade from day 1 and profit here as it is instant funding. That is the big difference. Of...

For the first months it is like you said. FundedNext offers 2150 (on 100K account) for passing the challenge and after 5% more profit.

So their you would get 5000 and at fundednext 2150+4000 = 6150. But passing the challenge is not an easy task.

Maybe that instant funding can be used of gaining some capital to then go on your own account.

Their accounts are on the demo side. So their plan is also make you too lose I suppose.
  • #11,604
  • Oct 15, 2022 5:36am Oct 15, 2022 5:36am
Quoting Eren10
{quote}But passing the challenge is not an easy task. Maybe that instant funding can be used of gaining some capital to then go on your own account.
Yes, exactly.
  • #11,605
  • Edited 12:04pm Oct 15, 2022 5:37am | Edited 12:04pm
Here are the formulas for the other cells on my upper limit calculation. They are shown in the pictures here below. Now can you do also your own calculations here.
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  • #11,606
  • Oct 15, 2022 5:51am Oct 15, 2022 5:51am
Any questions you have on the downside limit and upper limit calculations ? The factor on MFF E10 cell needs to be 1,0833 lower because of [(8%+5%)Goals/12%DD].
  • #11,607
  • Oct 15, 2022 6:01am Oct 15, 2022 6:01am
For example a 20% upper limit for profits on a 10% max DD would mean, whenevery your Reward-Risk-Ratio per month is higher than 2 (=20% Profits /10% DD), then compounding on your own personal account becomes more favorable. So the profit percentage numbers can also be understood as factors in relation to given max. DD.
  • #11,608
  • Oct 15, 2022 6:09am Oct 15, 2022 6:09am
To understand the downside limit you only need to look at the score on any prop firm offer. The score expresses the number of attempts you have (in average) before it does not make sense to do this prop firm offers. So on a 100k challenge at FTMO, paying more than 540 EUR*3.2 (=score)=1728€ would result in a score of less than 1. So whenever you realize you pay more than 1728€ on their (FTMO) 100k challenges when you try to get funded one should notice that own compounding is better then.
  • #11,609
  • Oct 15, 2022 6:11am Oct 15, 2022 6:11am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} ...and do not forget it is a trailing drawdown to make it even worse and more harder for everyone to keep his profits and meet their goals. If one cannot compare it...
The drawdown is as a percentage, so it actually gets larger when / if the Balance is increased.

Note that the daily loss limit applies to current daily equity. For example, a trader with a $100,000 funded account would have a $4,000 daily loss limit. If the trader ran up a profit of $10,000, their new daily loss limit would be $4,400 – or 4% of their new Balance of $110,000.

What is the problem with that?

From what I see on the website, there is actually less Bullshit, only 1-step evaluation, close trades by the weekend, pretty straight-forward.

Everybody is mocking but not suggesting what they rate as better in their view.
It takes a lot for me to IGNORE you, but you can try.
  • #11,610
  • Oct 15, 2022 6:29am Oct 15, 2022 6:29am
Quoting TrAndy1
To understand the downside limit you only need to look at the score on any prop firm offer. The score expresses the number of attempts you have (in average) before it does not make sense to do this prop firm offers. So on a 100k challenge at FTMO, paying more than 540 EUR*3.2 (=score)=1728€ would result in a score of less than 1. So whenever you realize you pay more than 1728€ on their (FTMO) 100k challenges when you try to get funded one should notice that own compounding is better then.
So when your passing rate to get funded on prop firm challenges is about 50%, and I assume no one has a 100% rate here, then you must adjust the score by dividing the number by 2 then. So on FTMO with a 50% pass rate (and that is quite high) you have a score of 1.6 and MFF it is still ca. 3.5. So you need to be aware of this rate.
  • #11,611
  • Oct 15, 2022 9:57am Oct 15, 2022 9:57am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} So when your passing rate to get funded on prop firm challenges is about 50%, and I assume no one has a 100% rate here, then you must adjust the score by dividing the number by 2 then. So on FTMO with a 50% pass rate (and that is quite high) you have a score of 1.6 and MFF it is still ca. 3.5. So you need to be aware of this rate.
When you have pass rate <100% then this would also negatively affect results on you personal account if you decided you trade the fee there. When the same worse performance affects both sides of the equation (personal account as well as the prop challenge) shouldn't the score actually stay the same regardless of your performance?
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #11,612
  • Oct 15, 2022 10:06am Oct 15, 2022 10:06am
Hi guys. I started a thread titled, Forex Prop firm vs Personal High Leveraged Account.

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/post/14181429

If someone can enlighten me about it, it would be helpful. Thanks.
  • #11,613
  • Oct 15, 2022 10:16am Oct 15, 2022 10:16am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} When you have pass rate <100% then this would also negatively affect results on you personal account if you decided you trade the fee there. When the same worse performance affects both sides of the equation (personal account as well as the prop challenge) shouldn't the score actually stay the same regardless of your performance?
No, because pass rate <100% rate does not mean you make no profits at all just does not meet the goal. Of course with free retries, then you must consider a loss also in the personal account. But that can be any number from -1% up to -100% loss. So there is room for interpretation here. But you right that this should be considered.
  • #11,614
  • Edited 11:41am Oct 15, 2022 10:17am | Edited 11:41am
To make it complete I have calculated the downside limit boundary and upper limit boundary on my prop firm score table sheet. BE means Breakeven. Have fun with it.
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  • #11,615
  • Edited 11:42am Oct 15, 2022 10:20am | Edited 11:42am
Here is the short form of it, to make the picture big greater here. But you can click on the picture to enlarge it too.
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  • #11,616
  • Edited 11:42am Oct 15, 2022 10:22am | Edited 11:42am
BE=Breakeven Attempt means if you need more than this number as attempts to achieve a funded account status (in average), then it does not make sense to follow this prop firm challenge for the trader. If your BE Profit per payout time period, usually 1 month, is higher or at least that percentage then own compounding on your own personal account also makes more sense pure mathematically expressed. The same with Breakeven Factor where the profit % is expressed to % DD as RRR factor.

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  • #11,617
  • Oct 15, 2022 10:30am Oct 15, 2022 10:30am
Quoting Supertrader9
Hi guys. I started a thread titled, Forex Prop firm vs Personal High Leveraged Account. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/post/14181429 If someone can enlighten me about it, it would be helpful. Thanks.
You are doing it wrong. Your examples are by far too simple. You need to factor Euler figure as I have done it. I have already done whole work. There is nothing to add.
  • #11,618
  • Oct 15, 2022 10:41am Oct 15, 2022 10:41am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} When you have pass rate <100% then this would also negatively affect results on you personal account if you decided you trade the fee there. When the same worse performance affects both sides of the equation (personal account as well as the prop challenge) shouldn't the score actually stay the same regardless of your performance?
The second thing you need to factor in that you are under time pressure and needs to meet a tough goal. So that pressure usually leads to higher risks thus resulting in higher chances that one will fail on his attempts. But you are right if everything is the same you always loose complete max. allowed DD then it is the same. But this is a very strict limitation. Because of time pressure, the percentage goal you need to meet, and also to my previous argument, that also a slight loss will cause a fail. And then there are also other rules which are different on every prop firm you need to take care of. These aren't on personal account. Not to speak about trading conditions.
  • #11,619
  • Oct 15, 2022 10:51am Oct 15, 2022 10:51am
The next factor in playing with high leverage you will not be in able to meat any paramaters in terms of drawdown ....
  • #11,620
  • Oct 15, 2022 11:02am Oct 15, 2022 11:02am
You can double the upper limit boundaries for E8Funding and TrueForexFunds because they do payouts after two weeks (E8 even bit faster), to make it comparable to the other offers, where prop firms allow first payout after 1 full month of trading. Because it is much harder to meet the upper limit within 2 weeks than within 1 month.
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