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  • #9,601
  • Jul 29, 2022 11:33am Jul 29, 2022 11:33am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} If you have a losing position and want to hold it to the next day, just close it at the end of day and immediately reopen it,so you will have same position but with a new balance, which will not reduce your next day 5% drawdown.
Exactly. I always recommend waiting the hour until spreads normalize though.
  • #9,602
  • Jul 29, 2022 12:14pm Jul 29, 2022 12:14pm
An alert: Finotive is not worth if one blows up a funded account. Before they allowed to blow 3 accounts before reducing profit split. Now it's just one

Before:
8.7.2 In order to protect our capital, traders who have failed funded accounts on 3 or more occasions will be capped to a profit split of 25%, with no scaling options. When all losses have been covered by Finotive Funding’s 75% profit share, the Trader will be reinstated to full profit split and account scaling options.

Now:
8.7.2 In order to protect our capital, traders who have failed previous funded accounts (either Challenge Phase 3 or Instant Funding) will be capped to a profit split
of 25%, with no scaling options. When all losses have been covered by Finotive Funding’s 75% profit share, the Trader will be reinstated to full profit split and
account scaling options.
  • #9,603
  • Edited 1:27pm Jul 29, 2022 1:15pm | Edited 1:27pm
The rule was put in place to stop high trade risk traders from getting several 5-6 figure payouts while continuously blowing live accounts. These traders are never forced to recover from drawdowns before getting another payout. If they keep 1-2 backup accounts at all times, they simply start over fresh on the next account with no down time. The prop firm's % of profits from several payouts ends up being less than the eventual blown drawdowns. They don't make money on these type of traders.
  • #9,604
  • Jul 29, 2022 4:02pm Jul 29, 2022 4:02pm
Quoting CableJ
The rule was put in place to stop high trade risk traders from getting several 5-6 figure payouts while continuously blowing live accounts. These traders are never forced to recover from drawdowns before getting another payout. If they keep 1-2 backup accounts at all times, they simply start over fresh on the next account with no down time. The prop firm's % of profits from several payouts ends up being less than the eventual blown drawdowns. They don't make money on these type of traders.
Yep, but then nobody would be making money except Finotive because nobody has that rule.

I think all companies have general rules in T&C about gambling, reckless behavior and so on that allows them to kick out traders like those for life.
  • #9,605
  • Jul 29, 2022 4:44pm Jul 29, 2022 4:44pm
Every time i see marketing from Thefundedtrader i wonder what convinced me to get this live account I have with them. Why do these punks deserve my time and money. The company is built on greed and ego of a child and I regret ever being a part of it. I also keep hitting unsubscribe but still getting the trash.
  • #9,606
  • Jul 29, 2022 4:48pm Jul 29, 2022 4:48pm
Quoting Takisd
Every time i see marketing from Thefundedtrader i wonder what convinced me to get this live account I have with them. Why do these punks deserve my time and money. The company is built on greed and ego of a child and I regret ever being a part of it. I also keep hitting unsubscribe but still getting the trash.
I guest this company spend 50% budget for marketing
They always pop up to mine aswell witch very annoying
  • #9,607
  • Jul 29, 2022 4:54pm Jul 29, 2022 4:54pm
Quoting Capablanca
I think all companies have general rules in T&C about gambling, reckless behavior and so on that allows them to kick out traders like those for life.
-The thing is, if these prop firms start enforcing those kinds of rules, then they may need to revisit how their challenge models are structured, because as things currently are, that kind of high-risk trading is not only expected, but required in my opinion. So, it would seem very hypocritical to me and probably to many others if they did that.

Because even if you trade reasonable lot sizes and use the entire 20-30 days to grind it out until challenge completion, it is still asking for a lot more than what would be or should be expected from any reasonable trader. You just cannot expect reasonable traders to generate 25%+ profit in one month, let alone 100%+. No matter how you slice it, that is considered high-risk by all accounts and measures.

Likely, these firms (and most traders) will not want to change the challenge models because:

Traders: It would take longer to get funded.
Prop: It would produce less turnover, so less profit.

But let's be honest, most of the traders that are signing up for these programs are probably trading funded accounts in such a way that would be considered as high-risk, reckless and gambling.
  • #9,608
  • Jul 29, 2022 5:01pm Jul 29, 2022 5:01pm
Quoting HengkiTjen
I guest this company spend 50% budget for marketing They always pop up to mine aswell witch very annoying
-When a youtuber/marketer creates a prop firm, probably, this kind of thing should be expected.

The good thing is, at least for US-based residents, that the CAN-SPAM Act makes no exceptions for business-to-business emails. Really not sure how this would apply to foreign-based entities, though. I suppose you would have to pursue legal action in their country of operations unless there was reciprocity already established. So, good luck with that. I guess you could threaten to post negative reviews if they do not remove you from their mailing list.
  • #9,609
  • Jul 29, 2022 5:22pm Jul 29, 2022 5:22pm
Quoting Takisd
Every time i see marketing from Thefundedtrader i wonder what convinced me to get this live account I have with them. Why do these punks deserve my time and money. The company is built on greed and ego of a child and I regret ever being a part of it. I also keep hitting unsubscribe but still getting the trash.
While they pay that's fine. They've been very profitable to me, so far.
A pity that their payment process sucks. Three days to process payouts, not being able to trade... it's complete garbage and the worse around there.

The thing is that if we want to scale and diversify risk we need to trade in less than optimal ones...
  • #9,610
  • Jul 29, 2022 9:24pm Jul 29, 2022 9:24pm
Regarding TheFundedTraderProgram, I wonder if the trading conditions for their royal accounts are any better than their other models? It seems that they are different since there are no lot size limits, EA's can be used and there are also no trade-copier limitations, unlike with their other account types. Not sure if this is just a gimmick or if the broker or something is actually different on this model type.

If I remember correctly, they allow up to 600K capital allocation on the royal accounts, which could be a good addition for those looking to expand. However, if the trading conditions are not good and there is a 3-day downtime where you cannot trade, then maybe that is not so good, especially if you have to cycle the TFTP account in/out of your trade copier all of the time.

I do not understand the downtime that many firms have. They should find better solutions so that trading does not have to stop for more than 1-hour or similar when making a withdrawal request. Even firms that create new accounts each time a withdrawal is processed should have automated solutions in place so that the downtime is minimal. Not making this a priority may send a bad message.
  • #9,611
  • Jul 30, 2022 2:15am Jul 30, 2022 2:15am
Anyone using The5%ers firm ? any thoughts
  • #9,612
  • Jul 30, 2022 2:39am Jul 30, 2022 2:39am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly. I always recommend waiting the hour until spreads normalize though.
It is always preferable to close open positions at the end of the day.

Next day, full 5 % Daily drawdown available.
Intraday only.
  • #9,613
  • Jul 30, 2022 2:54am Jul 30, 2022 2:54am
Quoting Nsak3y
Regarding TheFundedTraderProgram, I wonder if the trading conditions for their royal accounts are any better than their other models? It seems that they are different since there are no lot size limits, EA's can be used and there are also no trade-copier limitations, unlike with their other account types. Not sure if this is just a gimmick or if the broker or something is actually different on this model type. If I remember correctly, they allow up to 600K capital allocation on the royal accounts, which could be a good addition for those looking...

Its slightly worse.
  • #9,614
  • Jul 30, 2022 4:04am Jul 30, 2022 4:04am
Quoting HengkiTjen
Anyone using The5%ers firm ? any thoughts
No direct funding models are allowed to be even mentioned in this thread, you should know that.
So I'm assuming you ask about the bootcamp accounts. That fee is non-refundable, which is a big -.
The account is designed for a specific type of trader. They require a 2% sl on every position and you can't get around it by simply breaking it up into several pieces since they add all your positions together in any one symbol for sl calculations. However, if you move your sl into be or better then that position doesn't count. So ultimately you can scale up but not scale down. By scaling up you can reach the full account leverage of 1:10.
Or, you know, just go with a firm without these restriction and 1:100 leverage, no sl madness, refundable fee, for example TFF is 12% (8+4) or MFF is 13 (6+2+5) instead 3*6%.
However, you have 12 months on 5ers for the 18% which is 1.5% per month, instead 8% tff and 6% first month on mff. That is a huuuuuge difference in terms of prudent trading and doability though. Basically if you can't consistently make 1.5% per month then your biggest problem is not which prop but to learn how to trade properly.
  • #9,615
  • Jul 30, 2022 9:52am Jul 30, 2022 9:52am
audacitycapital has an interesting model, where you start with live trading. But they are talking about showing being profitable. But if that is the case why would someone work with them as profit share is about 50 %. Fee is 200 and 100 monthly.

Are there companies that offer something similar and favorable. MFF has one but only with 12 % of the profits you can get.
  • #9,616
  • Jul 30, 2022 10:24am Jul 30, 2022 10:24am
Quoting Eren10
audacitycapital has an interesting model, where you start with live trading. But they are talking about showing being profitable. But if that is the case why would someone work with them as profit share is about 50 %. Fee is 200 and 100 monthly. Are there companies that offer something similar and favorable. MFF has one but only with 12 % of the profits you can get.
As has been stated numerous times, if you are not doing challenge/verification models, the value IS JUST NOT THERE vs. your own personal account. Fee paid multiply times max loss times profit split must be +EV. Then, must consider what they are asking for profit vs. max loss to pass and get funded. If still +EV, that prop is better than trading your own money

Credit to TrAndy for the sheet.Attachment G
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: prop rankings.PNG Size: 25 KB
  • #9,617
  • Jul 30, 2022 10:30am Jul 30, 2022 10:30am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} As has been stated numerous times, if you are not doing challenge/verification models, the value IS JUST NOT THERE vs. your own personal account. Fee paid multiply times max loss times profit split must be +EV. Then, must consider what they are asking for profit vs. max loss to pass and get funded. If still +EV, that prop is better than trading your own money Credit to TrAndy for the sheet.4254935{image}
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: prop rank 2b.PNG Size: 6 KB
Must consider payouts, server, conditions and reviews as well.
Even better, go by the first hand experience(s) from those of us using the firms. You want value, trustworthy, reliable, no hidden rules. There are 5-6 now that are viable options, with 2 being heads and shoulders above the rest. While I completely understand folks researching for new firms, it is NOT going to improve your chances of passing. No need to look past the big ones until you have MAXED THEM to full allocation.
  • #9,618
  • Jul 30, 2022 12:03pm Jul 30, 2022 12:03pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} As has been stated numerous times, if you are not doing challenge/verification models, the value IS JUST NOT THERE vs. your own personal account. Fee paid multiply times max loss times profit split must be +EV. Then, must consider what they are asking for profit vs. max loss to pass and get funded. If still +EV, that prop is better than trading your own money Credit to TrAndy for the sheet.4254935{image}

On your list e8funding has highest score with 12.2, and its max DD is 14%. But I went to their website, they says max DD is only 8%. What am I missing here?
  • #9,619
  • Jul 30, 2022 12:11pm Jul 30, 2022 12:11pm
Quoting Takisd
Its slightly worse.
-That is unfortunate. Thanks.

Quoting muir
So I'm assuming you ask about the bootcamp accounts..
-There is also the Freestyle model. Although it is unique and has some advantages, it is quite restrictive compared to other offers in the space. They also have a 50-trade requirement for first withdrawal, which is not good.

Quoting pipmaster77
While I completely understand folks researching for new firms, it is NOT going to improve your chances of passing.
-Surely people are not researching new firms for that reason. But, I guess I would ultimately not be too surprised if some were.

Quoting wmwmw
But I went to their website, they says max DD is only 8%. What am I missing here?
-I believe that the DD changes or increases as/once you satisfy some sort of requirement.
  • #9,620
  • Jul 30, 2022 12:23pm Jul 30, 2022 12:23pm
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} On your list e8funding has highest score with 12.2, and its max DD is 14%. But I went to their website, they says max DD is only 8%. What am I missing here?
Yes, that is the *. TrAndy has them on the sheet with the 8% as well with a score of 3.5. E8 scales you every withdrawal up to 14%. It's just their unique twist, however, unless you do the Elevate model, there is no additional scaling and max allocation is 300K, so 42K max loss. That would be the equivalent of a 420K with FTMO or any firm with 10% max loss.
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