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  • #9,381
  • Jul 18, 2022 6:37am Jul 18, 2022 6:37am
Quoting Expo33
Apologies in advance to Mastermind for my sarcastic rant but I thought I'd liven up the thread to start the week with this nonsense. A couple of "I'll pass your challenge threads" popped up within an hour of each other. I hate to give either any free exposure by posting it here but the first one is just priceless, no pun intended. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...ces-guaranteed So what you're saying is I pay the $1000 fee for a 200K challenge and then all I have to do is give you $4000 for you...
No apologies necessary.

Totally relevant material.

We all need to be aware of these scam outfits.

Its surprising how many continue to fall for this garbage.

MFF will show you the door pronto for participating in this type of activity.

Masterrmind................
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #9,382
  • Jul 18, 2022 7:05am Jul 18, 2022 7:05am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} No apologies necessary. Totally relevant material. We all need to be aware of these scam outfits. Its surprising how many continue to fall for this garbage. MFF will show you the door pronto for participating in this type of activity. Masterrmind................

I propose a list.

Lets start with the following scams:

https://www.passyourchallenge.com/ aka Axel he has like 200 businesses doing this so lets just say Axel is a scammer.
Igdoust
forex_wealth_billionaire
goldmansach1993
_passftmochallenge
POW EA
fxcoregoldea
coreea
ftmofundedtraders.com
lamboraul
fundedchallengepass.com
passyourpropchallenge.com
robertsfx.com
passyourfunding.com
finessewealth.ca
tradelikealex


All these are the scammers I have seen so far. 20k a week isn't lambo money unless you are renting. Remember that when you look at these scammers.
  • #9,383
  • Jul 18, 2022 7:19am Jul 18, 2022 7:19am
You can add whole youtube to the scam list and also at least 99.9% of MQL market. What you find there is highly probably not any good and will you fail to pass.
  • #9,384
  • Jul 18, 2022 7:22am Jul 18, 2022 7:22am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I propose a list. Lets start with the following scams: https://www.passyourchallenge.com/ aka Axel he has like 200 businesses doing this so lets just say Axel is a scammer. Igdoust forex_wealth_billionaire goldmansach1993 _passftmochallenge POW EA fxcoregoldea coreea ftmofundedtraders.com lamboraul fundedchallengepass.com passyourpropchallenge.com robertsfx.com passyourfunding.com finessewealth.ca tradelikealex All these are the scammers I have seen so far. 20k a week isn't lambo money unless you are renting. Remember that when...
Nice start.

If traders can add to this list I will then add it into Post 1 for easy access for all traders.

Masterrmind..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #9,385
  • Jul 18, 2022 7:30am Jul 18, 2022 7:30am
Quoting TrAndy1
You can add whole youtube to the scam list and also at least 99.9% of MQL market. What you find there is highly probably not any good and will you fail to pass.
Thanks TrAndy1 but the main focus should be on those scams directly related to Prop Firms such as clowns that ask for a fee to pass your challenge or something along those lines.

Nevertheless there are multiple examples to be found on YouTube and as such I might add a note to Post 1 suggesting that traders should be aware of such scams even though only a handful are provided in this thread.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #9,386
  • Jul 18, 2022 7:56am Jul 18, 2022 7:56am
Quoting Takisd
Maybe we should make a secondary list of "pass your challenge" scammers here as well so that newbies have full information? I can see a lot of people whining now about being banned by ftmo, mff and e8 for copying other traders because of pass your challenge scams. On the other hand, its clearly written so..... suffer on your jocks?
-Personally, I see the value in sharing experiences and information, good or bad, relating to these prop firms. But sharing info on 3rd-party scammers that offer services that have nothing to do with the firms and are not required in any way, then I think that it is just a matter of choice, I suppose. Do we also offer info on EA's, signal providers or VPS services? Just saying.

This is a business, and if people cannot be bothered to do basic research regarding the prop firm rules prior to forking over 1K, then that is their own fault. I would gladly give my own shirt to help someone out. But if they are dumb enough to go out into the freezing cold without putting their shoes on first because they were too lazy to bother, then it becomes harder for me to sympathize.

That being said, if I am being totally and completely objective, then labeling all of these services as scams without definitive proof may not be the correct approach, even if we do not agree with them, and even if we know that they are breaking the rules.

So, with that in mind, I would like to give KramerFx a chance to explain his recent offering, since he has taken the time to post in this thread from time-to-time, but has seemingly blocked certain users from replying to his latest thread:

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It is only fair to hear his side, after all.
  • #9,387
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:09am Jul 18, 2022 8:09am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Personally, I see the value in sharing experiences and information, good or bad, relating to these prop firms. But sharing info on 3rd-party scammers that offer services that have nothing to do with the firms and are not required in any way, then I think that it is just a matter of choice, I suppose. Do we also offer info on EA's, signal providers or VPS services? Just saying. This is a business, and if people cannot be bothered to do basic research regarding the prop firm rules prior to forking over 1K, then that is their own fault. I would...

The scam is that they are charging people for something that they know is forbidden. If you are pushing that on people who aren't actually in FX its easy to convince them of things that wont happen.
  • #9,388
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:17am Jul 18, 2022 8:17am
Quoting Takisd
The scam is that they are charging people for something that they know is forbidden.
-Yes, I understand. But that kind of thing happens all of the time. A drug dealer selling empty promises in the form of illegal PED's to wannabe bodybuilders is not good, but there is always a choice. Even if something is illegal, sometimes people just want it anyway. And if the newbies do not understand the associated risks involved, but are capable adults, then we have a choice to inform them or not. I get it. It is always a matter of choice, after all. To call it a scam, I'm not sure. Selling cheat sheets to college students is also forbidden and carries heavy consequences, but it may not be a scam necessarily.
  • #9,389
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:20am Jul 18, 2022 8:20am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, I understand. But that kind of thing happens all of the time. A drug dealer selling empty promises in the form of illegal PED's to wannabe bodybuilders is not good, but there is always a choice. And if the newbies do not understand the associated risks involved, but are capable adults, then we have a choice to inform them or not. I get it. It is always a matter of choice, after all. To call it a scam, I'm not sure. Selling cheat sheets to college students is also forbidden and carries heavy consequences, but it may not be a scam necessarily....

The thing is, the passyouchallenge guys for example, often fail the accounts and do not refund. The cheat is that you have a pool of customers, on some you long on some you short, heavy lots and hope to pass.

A few of them ran arbitrage bots which worked for a while then failed and they blamed "broker scam". No one can consistently offer passed challenges as market conditions are never the same. Therefore knowing that there is a chance they will fail and they do not rectify their failure, they are a scam.
  • #9,390
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:26am Jul 18, 2022 8:26am
The problem with such a scam list, where does or should it begin and where does it end ? Because you can easily get a 10 or 100 times bigger list than the more trustworthy prop firms themselves. Maybe it is better approach to mention prop firms where is no payout as red card and problems with payouts as yellow card. On my list I already made, I came to the conclusion that firms who are offering scores below 1 are a kind of scam and should be given them a red card. And firms that have it not made to the closer list of my ranking table, like Traders Central or Corp Equity etc. should be but at least a yellow or dark yellow card because of the problems here.
  • #9,391
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:42am Jul 18, 2022 8:42am
Quoting Takisd
The thing is ... they are a scam.
-Maybe most, maybe even all, are scamming. We can choose if we want to educate newbie traders regarding those pitfalls, as I say. Just a matter of choice. I personally think, live and let live is the best approach. Or, in this case, live and let learn.

I can walk the streets of Thailand and see a 20-something year old female arm-and-arm with an 80 year old retiree, where most might assume the worst. Maybe some might think that she is just with him for financial reasons. Maybe others might think that he is just with her for physical reasons. But maybe they both know and accept those truths. Who am I to judge? If they are both happy, then so be it.

And maybe, as you say, the likelihood that the relationship will end in divorce and/or with the foreigner getting ripped off and losing his life savings is very high, especially if he met her in a bar where she works, but that does not mean that it is true in all cases. Should I still warn him about it? Maybe not. He is an adult. It's his business, not mine.

But if we assume that the rampant pass-your-challenge services may somehow adversely impact our own businesses, then there may be justifiable reasoning to spread awareness. I get it. This is why I say that it is a matter of choice, but that keeping an objective perspective may be the best approach, especially if it could potentially dilute the objective here.

Not sure about anyone else, but seeing the words pass and your together like that, always causes a short pause in my brain.
  • #9,392
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:44am Jul 18, 2022 8:44am
Quoting TrAndy1
The problem with such a scam list, where does or should it begin and where does it end ?
-Yes. No point in making a list if you assume that they are all scams anyway.
  • #9,393
  • Jul 18, 2022 8:48am Jul 18, 2022 8:48am
I also think a negative list should be narrowed down where you could not expect to be scammed ex ante before you join. Because everyone knows with half a brain that an illegal offer is not a good idea to join. That is why the list should be more intelligent. But as I said every prop firm that has not made it to my filtered ranking list...
  • #9,394
  • Jul 18, 2022 9:03am Jul 18, 2022 9:03am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe most, maybe even all, are scamming. We can choose if we want to educate newbie traders regarding those pitfalls, as I say. Just a matter of choice. I personally think, live and let live is the best approach. Or, in this case, live and let learn. I can walk the streets of Thailand and see a 20-something year old female arm-and-arm with an 80 year old retiree, where most might assume the worst. Maybe some might think that she is just with him for financial reasons. Maybe others might think that he is just with her for physical reasons....

If you look at SEO data, passyourchallenge dot com has the biggest marketing budget in the prop industry. They pay up to 5 USD per click from the ftmo keywords for example. Its predatory.

I do get your point, but I think there are a lot of people searching due diligence for these things and since this is FF's premier thread (hahaha) its probably a good place to have a list so that at least anyone who is googling will find it cos FF has good rankings. Even if we don't say the word scam, but "avoid these when trading at prop firms".
  • #9,395
  • Jul 18, 2022 9:12am Jul 18, 2022 9:12am
[quote=Takisd;14069882]{quote} The cheat is that you have a pool of customers, on some you long on some you short, heavy lots and hope to pass.

If any of you have ever seen the guaranteed winners in the sports betting world....We are on fire!!!!! 8-1 in our last 9 5 star picks!!!!!! We have inside info!!!! Same exact concept......pool of customers, half on one side of the game, the other half on the other side. The winners think you're a genius and you can sell them the "season package of winners" for thousands of dollars.

I knew a guy who ran a call center, would run ads on Saturday and Sunday mornings during football season. Phones would ring off the hook.

Once again, why aren't they doing it themselves.....wouldn't they make way more money?
  • #9,396
  • Jul 18, 2022 9:43am Jul 18, 2022 9:43am
By default anyone offering to pass a challenge on behalf of someone else is a scammer.
  • #9,397
  • Jul 18, 2022 9:50am Jul 18, 2022 9:50am
Quoting Takisd
Its predatory. ... Even if we don't say the word scam, but "avoid these when trading at prop firms".
-I think that we are mostly in agreement. Compiling a list, maybe not so necessary, but that is not so important. Spreading awareness about the potential pitfalls and a big red warning that says AVOID AT ALL COSTS these types of services while stating the reasoning, sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Not because I worry about lazy, youngish adults not doing due diligence, but mostly because I worry about the long-term, adverse impact that it may have on the remote prop firm scene.

As you say, most of the snake oil salesmen are predators, looking for easy prey. I have previously stated here that even providing such services legitimately is irresponsible. For example, even for someone like myself that is capable, I would not want to pass for someone just to help them in most cases because it may be too risky for them. So, I wouldn't personally lose any sleep if such predatory services showing up in a list here ended up losing a few bucks. As far as scam, not a scam...mostly semantics; not so important.
  • #9,398
  • Jul 18, 2022 9:52am Jul 18, 2022 9:52am
Quoting EnoFX
By default anyone offering to pass a challenge on behalf of someone else is a scammer.
-Why would you think so? I can think of one legitimate scenario where that would not be the case. Whether or not it would be wise is a different matter.
  • #9,399
  • Jul 18, 2022 9:58am Jul 18, 2022 9:58am
It's clearly against the rules so if you're charging someone for this kind of service you're scamming the prop firm and the person involved.
  • #9,400
  • Jul 18, 2022 10:05am Jul 18, 2022 10:05am
Quoting EnoFX
It's clearly against the rules so if you're charging someone for this kind of service you're scamming the prop firm and the person involved.
-I see. I was referring to cases where you would not be charging someone, such as helping a family member or something. But, whether or not that would be wise, is obviously questionable. To call it a scam though...but again, just semantics.
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