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  • #9,221
  • Jul 11, 2022 12:50am Jul 11, 2022 12:50am
Quoting doji
This is probably a stupid question but I'm wondering: why won't a really, really good reputable broker go into the prop firm business
-Some brokers have already started. Whether or not they are really, really good may be subjective.
  • #9,222
  • Jul 11, 2022 2:01am Jul 11, 2022 2:01am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Some brokers have already started. Whether or not they are really, really good may be subjective.
Which ones are these?
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #9,223
  • Jul 11, 2022 2:41am Jul 11, 2022 2:41am
OspreyFX
KOT4X
ProsperityFX

Are a few that I am aware of.

I have not looked too closely at the offerings. If I recall, the one or two that I looked at were not very competitive and/or were overly restrictive, comparatively speaking.
  • #9,224
  • Jul 11, 2022 3:51am Jul 11, 2022 3:51am
Quoting Nsak3y
OspreyFX KOT4X ProsperityFX Are a few that I am aware of. I have not looked too closely at the offerings. If I recall, the one or two that I looked at were not very competitive and/or were overly restrictive, comparatively speaking.

I also remember this Scandinavian broker has prop offer.. but I can't recall the full name of this broker.
  • #9,225
  • Jul 11, 2022 4:04am Jul 11, 2022 4:04am
Quoting doji
This is probably a stupid question but I'm wondering: why won't a really, really good reputable broker go into the prop firm business when prop firms have no problem being virtual brokers themselves (aka using their own servers for trading the markets)?
Probably because "props" are in the non regulated education business while brokers are in the real thing, regulated (some may be not too much regulated when they are in soft countries, but anyway a bit more regulated than education)
  • #9,226
  • Jul 11, 2022 5:01am Jul 11, 2022 5:01am
Quoting doji
This is probably a stupid question but I'm wondering: why won't a really, really good reputable broker go into the prop firm business when prop firms have no problem being virtual brokers themselves (aka using their own servers for trading the markets)?

Because revenues are more stable for good brokers to be brokers than to be a prop firm. A prop firm could have the legs kicked out from under it in a moment and get completely destroyed. A broker has long term stable business if they do it right and it feeds them well without needing an army of staff to give into entitled kids hunting lambos.
  • #9,227
  • Jul 11, 2022 5:02am Jul 11, 2022 5:02am
Quoting Nsak3y
OspreyFX KOT4X ProsperityFX Are a few that I am aware of. I have not looked too closely at the offerings. If I recall, the one or two that I looked at were not very competitive and/or were overly restrictive, comparatively speaking.

I would sooner put my money in funding talent than any of these. Speaking of KOT4X, it was the provider of funding talent.
  • #9,228
  • Jul 11, 2022 5:19am Jul 11, 2022 5:19am
Quoting Takisd
I would sooner put my money in funding talent than any of these.
-I suspect that the only traders willing to sign up with these funding programs are the ones that are not aware of the better options. If I recall, the broker offerings usually come with consistency rules and/or post-challenge review teams etc..
  • #9,229
  • Jul 11, 2022 6:22am Jul 11, 2022 6:22am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Because revenues are more stable for good brokers to be brokers than to be a prop firm. A prop firm could have the legs kicked out from under it in a moment and get completely destroyed. A broker has long term stable business if they do it right and it feeds them well without needing an army of staff to give into entitled kids hunting lambos.
I get that but can't this be another income stream? Unless being regulated expressly prohibits them from engaging in prop trading. If I'm not mistaken, Axitrader has its own funded trading program...
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #9,230
  • Jul 11, 2022 6:47am Jul 11, 2022 6:47am
guys again anyone check fundyourfx ? trustpilot good reviews .. how can we make sure they is legit ?
  • #9,231
  • Jul 11, 2022 6:54am Jul 11, 2022 6:54am
Quoting doji
{quote} I get that but can't this be another income stream? Unless being regulated expressly prohibits them from engaging in prop trading. If I'm not mistaken, Axitrader has its own funded trading program...
Every thing is a calculation.

If you are ICMarkets, your broker runs effectively and efficiently, same as tickmill. You have enough staff to cover and grow. Your support team is like 13 or so people. You have your account managers etc and you likely do well with 90 staff if you are using a good dealing desk (outsourced).

Now lets look at FTMO/MFF. MFF front end staff is like 40 just to run chats. Their back end looks like 100+, they have some senior staff too, I have no idea about their tech staff accounting etc. But lets say 300+ staff

FTMO is probably similar, i'd say slightly less but closer to 100-150 staff based on how busy their chat is and their email responses are always the same people.

ICMarkets would be making significantly more profit per month than both FTMO and MFF, despite MFF's trading volume (from their reports) being similar to ICMarkets trading volume. And, better yet, ICMarkets is beholden to no one. They are in a tried and true long term business which produces millions per month in profit and the owners/directors likely work a solid 8 hour day before retiring to their comfy homes.

I suspect the bigger prop firms senior managers are doing 15+ hour days and when they go to bed their eyes bleed and ears hurt from all the bullshit that the community of traders that trade prop spit at them in high doses every day. Death threats from violated accounts, people who try to game the system brigading them.... The low cost of entry basically brings out the worst types of people and en masse. I have a lot of sympathy, even for Jessica from funding talent, because the slightest fart in the services would be a massive nightmare and is one of the reasons when I evaluated opening one - I didn't.
  • #9,232
  • Jul 11, 2022 8:23am Jul 11, 2022 8:23am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I got it as well but I did nothing
Yes probably best thing to do. But if one go for a challenge, good idea to get extra 2% discount seeing that one will have to KYC if pass.
  • #9,233
  • Jul 11, 2022 8:59am Jul 11, 2022 8:59am
Quoting clivepackham
Hi Guys Well I've gone for the Fundednext option bought the $100,000 account for £480 so not the end of the world if it doesn't work out. Someones gotta give it a go and see how they follow through with all their promises of 90% profit share etc. I just liked the simplicity of it , rules are simple enough allowed 5% per day max loss and 10% on the month so should be able to stick within those rules ok. I've gone for the Express option as I could get it done in 10 days with a bit of luck. I've worked out trading a £50 per pip I need 25 pips per session...
Here you go Clive. Not heard from you for some time - so why not
try these guys based in the UK.

https://www.fundedtradingplus.com

Let us know what you think.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #9,234
  • Jul 11, 2022 9:08am Jul 11, 2022 9:08am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Here you go Clive. Not heard from you for some time - so why not try these guys based in the UK. https://www.fundedtradingplus.com Let us know what you think.
They have relative drawdown aka trailing max loss. Something to avoid.
  • #9,235
  • Jul 11, 2022 9:14am Jul 11, 2022 9:14am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} They have relative drawdown aka trailing max loss. Something to avoid.
Why?
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #9,236
  • Jul 11, 2022 9:15am Jul 11, 2022 9:15am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Here you go Clive. Not heard from you for some time - so why not try these guys based in the UK. https://www.fundedtradingplus.com Let us know what you think.

did you just reply to a 3 month old post?
  • #9,237
  • Jul 11, 2022 9:34am Jul 11, 2022 9:34am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Why?
Let's say you start with 100K account and 6% relative DD. You can lose 6K.
Today you profit 4K. Tomorrow you lose 4K. You are back to the starting point (100K) but now you can lose only 2K.

Besides this, if you achieve 8K in profits you have now 108K. The trailing stops at 100K. However if you lose those 8K it's 100% your money.
  • #9,238
  • Jul 11, 2022 9:38am Jul 11, 2022 9:38am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Every thing is a calculation. If you are ICMarkets, your broker runs effectively and efficiently, same as tickmill. You have enough staff to cover and grow. Your support team is like 13 or so people. You have your account managers etc and you likely do well with 90 staff if you are using a good dealing desk (outsourced). Now lets look at FTMO/MFF. MFF front end staff is like 40 just to run chats. Their back end looks like 100+, they have some senior staff too, I have no idea about their tech staff accounting etc. But lets say 300+ staff...
I get what you say. Not defending them because we know how crook they can be, but their life sounds a mix between traders who don't understand the basic concepts of spreads, gaps, slippage, reset limits, etc. and the things that they don't control.
I just saw this in MFF discord regarding the issue they had with gold which had to be fixed after understanding who was affected and correcting their accounts.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #9,239
  • Jul 11, 2022 9:52am Jul 11, 2022 9:52am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I get what you say. Not defending them because we know how crook they can be, but their life sounds a mix between traders who don't understand the basic concepts of spreads, gaps, slippage, reset limits, etc. and the things that they don't control. I just saw this in MFF discord regarding the issue they had with gold which had to be fixed after understanding who was affected and correcting their accounts. {image} {image}

yes, they are good and transparent. It is like the most miserable thing to have thousands of people who bought a course somewhere crying about 0.1 pip slippage or violations at rollover "rollover spread widened you are a scam". I have a lot of empathy for the staff so long as they aren't full of shit (as is the case of thefundedtraderprogram).
  • #9,240
  • Jul 11, 2022 10:51am Jul 11, 2022 10:51am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} did you just reply to a 3 month old post?
Yes I did. He seems to monitor this thread regularly.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
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