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  • #9,041
  • Jul 4, 2022 6:54pm Jul 4, 2022 6:54pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-This is a curious thing. Maybe a few things to consider: Are we to think that all funded accounts are immediately getting all trades pushed to live market? (If so, then can we expect that this firm will not survive for long?) Is this policy necessary in order to keep the business operations going? (If it is necessary, then they would be relying on the same, failed traders to keep on coming back for more in order to self-sustain. If it is not necessary, then it is like throwing salt into the wound for any traders that are not ready.) I have...
Sounds like this is a plan to stop traders with high risk strategies... regularly getting 5-6 figure payouts while blowing several accounts per year. These traders never have to dig themselves out of drawdowns before getting another payout, they simply forfeit the fee and start over fresh on the next backup account.
  • #9,042
  • Jul 4, 2022 9:04pm Jul 4, 2022 9:04pm
Quoting CableJ
If it was live @ an ECN broker/centralized exchange, unless there were >50 millisecond delays between orders to allow LPs/market makers time to replenish liquidity, there should be a similar impact as a single block order slippage wise. However, I highly doubt that is the case within a simulated environment. This could be a loophole in their algorithm.
-Yes, exactly. And exploiting that loophole seems risky to me. Maybe some traders would be able to get away with it for a while.

Quoting CableJ
Sounds like this is a plan to stop traders with high risk strategies...
-Yes. That, or they are just greedy. Either way, it's all about profits, most likely.
  • #9,043
  • Jul 5, 2022 2:36am Jul 5, 2022 2:36am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Contract initiated from TFF with Deel. Still kind of confusing as it doesn't show the profit withdrawal amount. Now, wait and see. Noticed that TFF is registered in Viet Nam. interesting as their physical address is listed as Hungary. I did notice that my evaluation fee has been sent back to my bank as I used my debit card to pay.
so you do first pay out ?
how was it ?
  • #9,044
  • Jul 5, 2022 2:58am Jul 5, 2022 2:58am
So something alarming came up in a telegram group I stalk.

Some guys are planning to collectively sue some firms because they got stung with copy trading rules. The rules are pretty clear, so I don't think they will win at best they will get a refund to go away, but it shows an additional risk to those of us who use the prop firms as legitimate funding sources. If bunch of 18 yr old kids who can't trade to save their life decide to legally damage these companies it could ruin it for the rest of us.
  • #9,045
  • Jul 5, 2022 4:45am Jul 5, 2022 4:45am
Quoting Takisd
So something alarming came up in a telegram group I stalk. Some guys are planning to collectively sue some firms because they got stung with copy trading rules. The rules are pretty clear, so I don't think they will win at best they will get a refund to go away, but it shows an additional risk to those of us who use the prop firms as legitimate funding sources. If bunch of 18 yr old kids who can't trade to save their life decide to legally damage these companies it could ruin it for the rest of us.
If the rules are stated clearly, there is no way "the bunch of 18 yr old kids" can win, so why are you worried?
You can reach me on Telegram @ KramerFx
  • #9,046
  • Jul 5, 2022 4:49am Jul 5, 2022 4:49am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I would want to make sure that the 4% requirement is only a one-time thing. Per their FAQ, it is not clearly defined enough in my opinion. Since that 4% profit requirement is likely based on account size and not draw-down allowance, then it is really more like 40%. You would also have to consider that the challenge phases of 6% and 6% or actually 6% and 10% requirements (or 60% and 100%, respectively, I believe).
There were doubts about this but it seems that Blue Guardian Capital clarified in the FAQs that the minimum 4% is just for the first payout.
This is in their FAQs now.
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  • #9,047
  • Edited 5:22am Jul 5, 2022 5:08am | Edited 5:22am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} There were doubts about this but it seems that Blue Guardian Capital clarified in the FAQs that the minimum 4% is just for the first payout. This is in their FAQs now. {image}
The spreads of BGC are the worst I have seen from various prop firms, Finotive is also such bad when I compared them. TPT is much better here, but worse than TFF.
One needs to compare his trading volume with the spreads of firms having lower scores too, because when the spreads are better with certain volume then the lower ranked prop firm with a lower score becomes better after accounting the trading cost. This is especially true for daytraders or scalpers or traders with low SL, high lots.
  • #9,048
  • Jul 5, 2022 5:22am Jul 5, 2022 5:22am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} The spreads of BGC are the worst I have seen from various prop firms, Finotive is also such bad when I compared them. TPT is much better here, but worse than TFF.
What instruments are you refering to ?

In EURUSD, GBPUSD and AUDUSD, the one I use, they're pretty normal compared with others.

A moment ago:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Commissions on forex are expensive (7 USD per lot)

Broker is Purple
  • #9,049
  • Edited 6:00am Jul 5, 2022 5:40am | Edited 6:00am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} What instruments are you refering to ? In EURUSD, GBPUSD and AUDUSD, the one I use, they're pretty normal compared with others. A moment ago: {image} Commissions on forex are expensive (7 USD per lot) Broker is Purple
It looks like the spreads have become better at BGC now but it should be worse than TPT. Could you post a screenshot for all majors and minors, Gold, Dow, SP500 too ?
  • #9,050
  • Jul 5, 2022 6:00am Jul 5, 2022 6:00am
Quoting KramerFx
{quote} If the rules are stated clearly, there is no way "the bunch of 18 yr old kids" can win, so why are you worried?

One word. Regulators.
  • #9,051
  • Jul 5, 2022 7:02am Jul 5, 2022 7:02am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} It looks like the spreads have become better at BGC now but it should be worse than TPT. Could you post a screenshot for all majors and minors, Gold, Dow, SP500 too ?
TPT usually are the worse because they don't charge commission. Btw, we probably should always analyze spreads + commission because there's so much difference between them in this aspect.
Enclosed the spreads for Blue Guardian, just now
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  • #9,052
  • Jul 5, 2022 7:10am Jul 5, 2022 7:10am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} TPT usually are the worse because they don't charge commission. Btw, we probably should always analyze spreads + commission because there's so much difference between them in this aspect. Enclosed the spreads for Blue Guardian, just now {image} {image}
Can you also post the same for TPT since you are still active with them? When I say spreads, always meant comm included, otherwise comparison does not make sense.
  • #9,053
  • Jul 5, 2022 7:26am Jul 5, 2022 7:26am
TPT just now
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  • #9,054
  • Jul 5, 2022 7:36am Jul 5, 2022 7:36am
Quoting Capablanca
TPT just now {image} {image}
Both BGC and TPT are not good overall. Daytraders or heavy traders doing large volumes monthly should look elsewhere. TFF is much better, also TFT should be better.
On those props like BGC, TPT it depends very, very much what instruments you trade. Some are ok, some are rip-offs like SPX with 0.8 spread on such liquid contract.
  • #9,055
  • Jul 5, 2022 7:56am Jul 5, 2022 7:56am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Both BGC and TPT are not good overall. Daytraders or heavy traders doing large volumes monthly should look elsewhere. TFF is much better, also TFT should be better. On those props like BGC, TPT it depends very, very much what instruments you trade. Some are ok, some are rip-offs like SPX with 0.8 spread on such liquid contract.
The problem with TFF (and MyFF) for day trading is they have constant 0.03-0.05 pip slippage where as TPT is not having any slippages if traded more than 3 lots. So it is other way around considering fees and slippages. Indices are even worse in TFF (MyFF is one of the best)
  • #9,056
  • Jul 5, 2022 8:49am Jul 5, 2022 8:49am
Ok, finotive's rules are a bit much when the targets are fairly high.

Mostly the stop loss calculation being no more than 50% of the daily allowed dd is the problem, especially if you are trying to scale into a winner. If the target was like 3% i think its fair but with those rules and the current target its fairly difficult. Having a stop loss on every trade is do-able but having that stoploss calculation for every trade being a certain amount really reduces size, so you have to scale into each position and then calculate that a) you haven't got more dd than allowed and b) the latest scale in isn't 50% of the daily allotment.

I understand why the rule is what it is, I'm just the fool who bought before reading the fine print.
My account is fine just that the progress is slow because of all these calculations.
  • #9,057
  • Jul 5, 2022 8:59am Jul 5, 2022 8:59am
Quoting Takisd
So something alarming came up in a telegram group I stalk. Some guys are planning to collectively sue some firms because they got stung with copy trading rules. The rules are pretty clear, so I don't think they will win at best they will get a refund to go away, but it shows an additional risk to those of us who use the prop firms as legitimate funding sources. If bunch of 18 yr old kids who can't trade to save their life decide to legally damage these companies it could ruin it for the rest of us.
Yes. I am 100% more worried about bullshit regulation than any of the big boys going out of business. You are exactly right, not a shot in hell they would win, but it is unnecessary attention. Of course, they cannot pay them to make them go away as that would set a precedent for others to do the same. It's probably just childish talk though, they cannot actually think they'd win?
  • #9,058
  • Jul 5, 2022 9:08am Jul 5, 2022 9:08am
Works as charming again. Completed in 1 day with 1 trade, just splitted to get no slippage. Yesterday some test trades on US holiday. Now just to fill the trading days.
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  • #9,059
  • Jul 5, 2022 9:25am Jul 5, 2022 9:25am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes. I am 100% more worried about bullshit regulation than any of the big boys going out of business. You are exactly right, not a shot in hell they would win, but it is unnecessary attention. Of course, they cannot pay them to make them go away as that would set a precedent for others to do the same. It's probably just childish talk though, they cannot actually think they'd win?

In the US where any dumpster lawyer takes a case, the idea is to send a list of demands and spook a firm. I dont think you can win in any way against FTMO or MFF as I suspect they have proper legal structures in the background. But the companies run by younger folk who are scared of lawyers it could work. Remember, funding talent got rekt because they had server issues, people taking advantage of their stupid server and a pile of legal cases occurring at the same time.
  • #9,060
  • Jul 5, 2022 9:37am Jul 5, 2022 9:37am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Just saw it after I had purchased. Also saw this.. Spread is a bit awful. Lets see when market reopens after rollover. I am already thinking I will be writing this one off. Edit: I think I have a strategy that will work under their conditions without allowing them to randomly refuse me any payment. It will be tight, but it will be possible. Lets see. {image}
This didn't improve today, despite is a normal business day....
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