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  • #9,021
  • Jul 4, 2022 10:48am Jul 4, 2022 10:48am
To mention on those scaling plans that the FTMO and TFF per strategy or per trader is meant to be, whatever comes first. So this is not very good criteria to choose.
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  • #9,022
  • Jul 4, 2022 11:23am Jul 4, 2022 11:23am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I'll definitely keep everyone posted
Contract initiated from TFF with Deel.

Still kind of confusing as it doesn't show the profit withdrawal amount. Now, wait and see. Noticed that TFF is registered in Viet Nam. interesting as their physical address is listed as Hungary.

I did notice that my evaluation fee has been sent back to my bank as I used my debit card to pay.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #9,023
  • Jul 4, 2022 11:25am Jul 4, 2022 11:25am
Quoting Takisd
I will dive into finotive tomorrow if my cards allow me and report back. The broker seems shady but lets see, also i dont like the way all these influencers are some how now praising payouts from them like they have been around 10 yrs but we will see. It shouldnt take too long to find out if they will pay or not.
Not a company for long term if you plan to blow several accounts.

Quote
8.7.2 In order to protect our capital, traders who have failed funded accounts on 3 or more occasions will be capped to a profit split of 25%, with no scaling options. When all losses have been covered by Finotive Funding’s 75% profit share, the Trader will be reinstated to full profit split and account scaling options.
  • #9,024
  • Jul 4, 2022 11:27am Jul 4, 2022 11:27am
Quoting Expo33
I did notice that my evaluation fee has been sent back to my bank as I used my debit card to pay.
Yep, that's standard in them. I always got the fee back to the same initial payment method. And without asking.
  • #9,025
  • Jul 4, 2022 11:43am Jul 4, 2022 11:43am
Quoting TrAndy1
To mention on those scaling plans that the FTMO and TFF per strategy or per trader is meant to be, whatever comes first. So this is not very good criteria to choose. {image}

Thanks for clarification, TFF said the same.

So The prop trading is the only one that allows unlimited accounts given they are trading different stratagies/instruments.
Plan your trade, trade your plan
  • #9,026
  • Jul 4, 2022 11:50am Jul 4, 2022 11:50am
Quoting TrAndy1
To mention on those scaling plans that the FTMO and TFF per strategy or per trader is meant to be, whatever comes first. So this is not very good criteria to choose. {image}
Exactly. It is not $400K per trader per strategy. It is either or. You can have 400K as a trader with one or multiple strategies or you can have 400K as a strategy with one or multiple traders. This is why publicly sold EAs will not work, other than the fact they do not work anyway. Too many traders on one strategy would violate ALL of those traders accounts.
  • #9,027
  • Jul 4, 2022 11:59am Jul 4, 2022 11:59am
Quoting TrAndy1
To mention on those scaling plans that the FTMO and TFF per strategy or per trader is meant to be, whatever comes first. So this is not very good criteria to choose. {image}

Updated for TFF and FTMO per trader allocation max

Also confirmed with Traders Central Fund you can start on the 200k account and scale up to $2M within 4 stages.

200k with 10% profit they top up to 400k
400k with 10% profit they top up to 1M
1M with 10% profit they top up to 1.5M
1.5M with 10% profit they top up to 2M

Cannot withdraw during the scaling though.

Similar structure with FT+

200k with 10% profit they top up to 400k
400k with 10% profit they top up to 800k
800k with 10% profit they top up to 1.6M
1.6M with 10% profit they top up to 2.5M

different rules for both, FT+ you can withdraw but what you don't withdraw is whats left as buffer for max DD, and the 10% target is independent of profit left in
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Plan your trade, trade your plan
  • #9,028
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:03pm Jul 4, 2022 12:03pm
Finotive:

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  • #9,029
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:07pm Jul 4, 2022 12:07pm
Quoting Capablanca

Quote

8.7.2 In order to protect our capital, traders who have failed funded accounts on 3 or more occasions will be capped to a profit split of 25%, with no scaling options. When all losses have been covered by Finotive Funding’s 75% profit share, the Trader will be reinstated to full profit split and account scaling options.

-This is a curious thing. Maybe a few things to consider:

 

  1. Are we to think that all funded accounts are immediately getting all trades pushed to live market? (If so, then can we expect that this firm will not survive for long?)
  2. Is this policy necessary in order to keep the business operations going? (If it is necessary, then they would be relying on the same, failed traders to keep on coming back for more in order to self-sustain. If it is not necessary, then it is like throwing salt into the wound for any traders that are not ready.)

I have not checked out this firm before, at least, not to any real extent. I would be curious about how many traders are actually aware of this rule. Maybe they do not have many traders, though. Either way, this is interesting and certainly a very important point to be aware of for any traders that are currently working with them. Thanks for sharing.

If only these firms were more creative in positive ways...

  • #9,030
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:09pm Jul 4, 2022 12:09pm
Quoting Capablanca
Finotive: {image}
Just saw it after I had purchased.

Also saw this.. Spread is a bit awful. Lets see when market reopens after rollover.

I am already thinking I will be writing this one off.

Edit: I think I have a strategy that will work under their conditions without allowing them to randomly refuse me any payment. It will be tight, but it will be possible. Lets see.
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  • #9,031
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:18pm Jul 4, 2022 12:18pm
Quoting symmtrytradr
Traders Central Fund
-Unfortunately, it is my understanding that TCF still has a review team in place for the larger accounts. Meaning, you could be rejected or refused payout for any, arbitrary reasoning if your trading results do not correlate with their ambiguous, high standards.

And although most firms have a similar clause in place as a safe-guard measure, this firm is actually known for acting on it. Which is very unfortunate, because if you look at the firm solely based on their offerings, they are actually very competitive, if not the best that is currently available in the space.
  • #9,032
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:45pm Jul 4, 2022 12:45pm
Finotive customer chat for EAs :


- Hi I have an EA that places auto stop losses and take profits. Is that ok with your rules ?

------If the EA, amends, places or takes trades on your behalf then no it's not. We allow magickeys or we offer a lot size calculator in the dhabourd for you to use

-No it does not places or takes trades. It automatically places stop losses and take profits. Is that considered as ''amends'' ?

-------If it is automatically placing stop losses and targets for you then it is yes. It's essentially doing it for you

-So I am not allowed to use that ?

-------The problem we have is we have no way of actually verifying if it's a EA which places trades on your behalf or a risk management EA, they both come though on our manager as expert
So on this occasion no not if its putting on your stop losses and take profits. You will need to do that manually

-Thanks what about this ?
''For the Classic Challenge we allow the use of EAs, Copy Trading & Signals, however the trader must be able to provide evidence of the source. For EAs this means submitting the source code and settings used at the end of each phase to allow us to verify trades. Copy Trading and Signals may only be used from pre-approved providers. If a trader cannot provide the source code (i.e., Due to purchasing the EA) or does not use a pre-approved Copy Trading or signal source, this is not a problem, but the Trader will be capped at a 25% profit split.''

------Yeh that's completely fine, but obviously we would need to source code for the EA to be able to have your splits at 75%. If the source code is not provided then the profit split will be capped at 25%

-thanks
  • #9,033
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:48pm Jul 4, 2022 12:48pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Just saw it after I had purchased. Also saw this.. Spread is a bit awful. Lets see when market reopens after rollover. I am already thinking I will be writing this one off. Edit: I think I have a strategy that will work under their conditions without allowing them to randomly refuse me any payment. It will be tight, but it will be possible. Lets see. {image}
Better to check again tomorrow.
Today is July 4th, only futures were opened, market was more illiquid and they may have widen the spreads.
  • #9,034
  • Jul 4, 2022 12:55pm Jul 4, 2022 12:55pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Better to check again tomorrow. Today is July 4th, only futures were opened, market was more illiquid and they may have widen the spreads.

Lets see, I have a monitor on it as well measuring the spread movements when it goes near my stop loss too.
  • #9,035
  • Jul 4, 2022 1:19pm Jul 4, 2022 1:19pm
Quoting Phenotype
Finotive customer chat for EAs -------If it is automatically placing stop losses and targets for you then it is yes. It's essentially doing it for you -So I am not allowed to use that ? -------The problem we have is we have no way of actually verifying if it's a EA which places trades on your behalf or a risk management EA, they both come though on our manager as expert
-I personally do not understand the issue of EA usage, especially if the EA is profitable and does not create problems for the firm. It is their choice, I guess. I use EA's for close-all and automatic TP/SL.

Finotive was not looking so great, even before this. Thanks for sharing.
  • #9,036
  • Jul 4, 2022 1:28pm Jul 4, 2022 1:28pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I personally do not understand the issue of EA usage, especially if the EA is profitable and does not create problems for the firm. It is their choice, I guess. I use EA's for close-all and automatic TP/SL. Finotive was not looking so great, even before this. Thanks for sharing.

I've been on hold with their chat like 40 minutes now with no answer.

Do I regret giving them 950 bucks, yep... but I will try my hardest to get it back via trading and so i can report on the experience. But yeh, reaffirms the question of why anyone would use any company other than FTMO and MFF.
  • #9,037
  • Jul 4, 2022 1:32pm Jul 4, 2022 1:32pm
Quoting pipmaster77
For the naysayers, I get it, doesn't sit right with you. Where does the capital come from? Is it a ponzi? Do the trades go to market? Are the fees the only source of revenue? We can sit and speculate these things all day, while these firms continue to send out mid and high 5 figure and even 6 figure profit splits. If you are even just a little above average trader, you should be making a killing with this business model. If you are a good trader, you could retire a multi millionaire in under 5 years. Once again, only if treated like a business....
I think this is the perfect sum up on this thread so far. Clearly these models have been designed to ensure they extract as much as possible from failed challenge fees and these firms will never reveal how much if anything is even copied to live accounts. As long as scammers and people selling EAs still exist, trading in general will forever have a greater than 80% fail rate and these prop firms will milk that till kingdom come.

There is a gambler inside each one of us and that's the reason why almost all of us started trading in the first place. But as long as you can keep that gambler inside you constrained and just objectively look at this as a business you can make some good money.
  • #9,038
  • Jul 4, 2022 1:38pm Jul 4, 2022 1:38pm
Quoting Takisd
but I will try my hardest to get it back via trading and so i can report on the experience. But yeh, reaffirms the question of why anyone would use any company other than FTMO and MFF.
-Well, you can add me to the list of traders that really appreciate it. I appreciate all types of feedback, good or bad.

I hope that more traders are willing to test the waters and share their experiences. The more good firms that can grow and compete on the same level or better than FTMO/MFF, the better, and that can only happen if people are willing.
  • #9,039
  • Edited 7:16pm Jul 4, 2022 5:50pm | Edited 7:16pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-That's very interesting. I suppose that I might be concerned that using something like this could get my account banned, however, on the grounds that I would be taking advantage of unrealistic trading conditions by exploiting their fixed, simulated slippage thresholds and completely eliminating slippage by using automated tools. Presumably, the EA can execute all of the trades at the same time or close to it? If so, then slippage could still occur in a real trading environment if so many trades were executed all within the same block, whereas,...

Since they are likely not going to market until there is a long established history with the trader, they are simulating slippage. @ MFF they encourage you to split larger orders, you're just deciding how to split it.

I use variable SLs in FX anywhere from 5-22 pips, so order sizes can get quite large @ 5 SL even using very low risk.

The EA splits order equally by your specified number and simultaneously sends to market. If it was live @ an ECN broker/centralized exchange, unless there were >50 millisecond delays between orders to allow LPs/market makers time to replenish liquidity, there should be a similar impact as a single block order slippage wise. However, I highly doubt that is the case within a simulated environment. This could be a loophole in their algorithm.
  • #9,040
  • Jul 4, 2022 6:09pm Jul 4, 2022 6:09pm
Quoting Takisd
Reading through some pretty awesome discussion in here. Its awesome, everything awesome. I will try to fit the word awesome in a bit more. Anyway, there is one strange thing I read that someone believes a broker makes money from spread and commission. In some cases yes, but in most cases the spread of a retail broker is better than liquidity.
Most retail traders would be horrified if they saw the actual spreads on single bank platforms or the major institutional multi bank platforms like EBS, Reuters matching or FXall compared to the average b book bucket shop.
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