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  • #7,641
  • Edited 1:05pm Apr 22, 2022 9:03am | Edited 1:05pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes the scaling process is a bit nasty. My profit split will be 60/40 favoring the trader. Zero cost to me entering this program due to the 'promo' which I have mentioned previously. Only required opening a live account with 8Cap, making at least a $500 deposit and trading a minimum of 1 lot. No evaluation required although they did go through my trading account to verify it. This program is instant funding not challenge. As for the spread they are workable but certainly no where near the lowest. Check out Interactive Brokers trading at...

If you reach some good levels than all will be worth it but to get to there will cost you a lot of effort. Maybe scaling up to a some number and than choosing for payouts is a good option.


I traded also through 8cap. Spreads were normal, eurusd is about 1.1 pips (0.8 spread + 3dollar commission) which is on the high side. Spread on gold is about 0.12 without commissions, so this is very good.
Maybe any higher pips are inserted at benefit of the prop firm, they get also commissions.


For interactive brokers I have to save a lot money
  • #7,642
  • Apr 22, 2022 9:07am Apr 22, 2022 9:07am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Nowhere in the legislation does it say that US citizens are restricted to approved and licensed brokerages. Nowhere. This has been argued many times with people like yourself who are completely oblivious to FX markets and legislation.
From the CFTC website

The Registration Deficient List, also called the RED List, contains names of foreign entities that appear to be acting in a capacity that requires registration with the CFTC, but they are NOT registered with the CFTC.
The inclusion of an entity’s name on the RED List does not mean that the CFTC or a court has concluded that a violation of any provision of the Commodity Exchange Act or the Commission’s Regulations has occurred. However, you should be cautious of unregistered firms or individuals when participating in products or markets that historically have seen a large number of fraud complaints — these include binary options, forex, digital currencies, commodity pools, and precious metals.
Check the list before you trade.

If it was illegal, you bet your ass it would state it here. Instead, they recommend using caution when trading with firms on the "RED " list. However, as stated above, I have found firms on the "RED" list to actually be much more trustworthy and offer 100x better conditions than the garbage not on the "RED" list. Of course, 90% of them are probably scams, there are also some really great brokers who are simply offering much better conditions than the US entities.
What people fail to realize is government is really not here to protect you, it is here to control you. Just look at the horrific past 17 months in the US, tells you all you really need to know.
  • #7,643
  • Edited 10:16am Apr 22, 2022 9:39am | Edited 10:16am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Nowhere in the legislation does it say that US citizens are restricted to approved and licensed brokerages. Nowhere. This has been argued many times with people like yourself who are completely oblivious to FX markets and legislation.
To be clear, the statutes enacted by Congress authorize the CFTC to promulgate rules. The CFTC rules are codified in 75 FR 55410. In relevant part, those rules state that:

Commission has promulgated rules
covering the full scope of FCM activities
generally. Furthermore, the recent Wall
Street Reform and Consumer Protection
Act of 2010 specifically defines FCMs as
any ‘‘individual, association,
partnership, corporation, or trust * * *
that * * * is * * * acting as a
counterparty in any agreement, contract
or transaction described in Section
2(c)(2)(C)(i)’’ of the Act,25 making it
clear that the offering of ‘‘look-alike’’
transactions falls within the scope of
regulated FCM activity. Accordingly,
the Commission sees no deficiencies in
its authority to fully regulate FCMs
engaged in ‘‘look-alike’’ forex
contracts. (https://www.cftc.gov/sites/default/f...010-21729a.pdf).

Any dealer broker that solicits that transacts with at least 15 U.S. resident traders avails itself to U.S. jurisdiction under the "minimum contacts" standard. Have a look at a post Dodd-Frank enforcement case where FxOpen did exactly what we're discussing and then went to a federal court of appeals, lost, and was banned: https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/6164-12

Horne hit the nail on the head in Post #3 of this thread: "New prop firms getting more competitive popping up, regulators cracking down on "retail traders". This may be the future of forex?"

To be fair, I don't believe that the feds have the desire nor the resources to crack down on countless individual U.S. retail traders. Obviously the fed is indirectly stopping U.S. traders from transacting with unlicensed brokers and look-alike entities by way of cracking down on the unlicensed commercial entities.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,644
  • Apr 22, 2022 10:29am Apr 22, 2022 10:29am
Quoting RJo
To be clear
-Why haven't you kicked rocks yet?
  • #7,645
  • Apr 22, 2022 11:27am Apr 22, 2022 11:27am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Why haven't you kicked rocks yet?
I'm not a stone thrower nor a rock kicker. I simply enjoy fact based debates.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,646
  • Apr 22, 2022 12:54pm Apr 22, 2022 12:54pm
Quoting RJo
I'm not a stone thrower nor a rock kicker. I simply enjoy fact based debates.
-Respectfully, I think that you are wasting your time here. This thread was not created for the purpose of arguing legal jurisdiction of over-reaching, US regulatory groups.
  • #7,647
  • Apr 22, 2022 1:49pm Apr 22, 2022 1:49pm
Quoting RJo
{quote} To be clear, the statutes enacted by Congress authorize the CFTC to promulgate rules. The CFTC rules are codified in 75 FR 55410. In relevant part, those rules state that: Commission has promulgated rules covering the full scope of FCM activities generally. Furthermore, the recent Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act of 2010 specifically defines FCMs as any ‘‘individual, association, partnership, corporation, or trust * * * that * * * is * * * acting as a counterparty in any agreement, contract or transaction described in Section...
Horne home country is Australia. There is no such thing happening in the USA as "regulators cracking down on retail traders". Maybe in his home country perhaps, but not here.

You can see plenty of examples of CFTC going after brokers. How many "retail traders" have they gone after? Zero.

Quoting RJo
{quote}To be fair, I don't believe that the feds have the desire nor the resources to crack down on countless individual U.S. retail traders.
To be fair, that's what we told you all along, you were just being intentionally thick to acknowledge it. Also the "Feds" have zero authority on any offshore brokerage. The ones they have cracked down on was only due to some relation that business had on US soil.

No wonder you don't do law anymore. You must have sucked at it.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #7,648
  • Apr 22, 2022 1:53pm Apr 22, 2022 1:53pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Respectfully, I think that you are wasting your time here. This thread was not created for the purpose of arguing legal jurisdiction of over-reaching, US regulatory groups.
Thank you for your concern for my time but I have lots of time because my automated trading sets me free. I thought your rock kicking post was made in jest, so I didn't laugh at you but laughed at your post.

I respectfully refrain from discussing anti vs pro government sentiments because this forum prohibits political discussion.

I fully understand that many U.S. retail traders looking for capital may be tempted by unlicensed offshore entities and their partners. Hey, with huge amounts of margin and hedging, it's easy to see. In fact, I looked into some of these entities myself at one point. My initial take was that they looked too good to be true. I figured, if forex prop firms are legitimate win-win money makers, why hasn't Wall Street created a licensed forex prop firm partnered with a licensed U.S. forex broker? Excessive regulation? Wait a minute... Didn't Wall Street write the rules?

I'm not so sure that the best 10% of the worst on the CFTC Red List is a good place to find a broker. If so, wouldn't it be at worst a Yellow List? I'm guessing that the Red Listed entities simply haven't been the subject of a CFTC complaint yet. By the way, most CFTC complaints are filed by traders which brings up an important point...

Where is a retail trader with a valid claim against a broker going to file his/her complaint? Against a licensed U.S. entity, the CFTC. Just mention a potential CFTC complaint to a U.S. broker and watch how fast the problem gets resolved. Against an unlicensed offshore entity, who knows. Judge Valkenheiser in Valkenvania? Good luck in international court, assuming Valkenvania is a member of the international court. (Valkenvania is not a real country but is a movie, so just replace it with the unlicensed entity of your choice).

In any event, all forum members have a right to know what we might be getting into.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,649
  • Apr 22, 2022 2:02pm Apr 22, 2022 2:02pm
Quoting RJo
{quote} Thank you for your concern for my time but I have lots of time because my automated trading sets me free. I thought your rock kicking post was made in jest, so I didn't laugh at you but laughed at your post. I respectfully refrain from discussing anti vs pro government sentiments because this forum prohibits political discussion. I fully understand that many U.S. retail traders looking for capital may be tempted by unlicensed offshore entities and their partners. Hey, with huge amounts of margin and hedging, it's easy to see. In fact, I...
and what happens when a trader files a complaint......a fine and a slap on the wrist. This is truly why all regulations are created....to collect fines. The regualtions are not there to protect the trader, if they were, two things would happen....

1. The CFTC would allow for protection of funds with forex brokers. As of now, they actually prohibit it.
2. They would actually "regulate", forcing the brokers under their watch into offering better conditions, not allow platform freezes, random spikes, etc...I know you know what I am talking about here.....you can pretend to be naive if you wish, not really sure what your motive is here.

I will repost once again.....

 

  1. The conditions are far superior than any offered in the US. Spreads are thinner, commissions are lower. I have no random price spikes, freezing platforms, etc. I mean these things happen from time to time, however, they are legitimate issues. With CFTC “regulated” brokers they are more often than not intentional For some reason, the regulated brokers actually get away with MORE cheating. I can also trade indices and metals as for some reason these are prohibited with CFTC. The rest of the world can trade them, but not the land of the free.
  2. This is the biggie. Since the CFTC does not allow for segregation or protection of funds in any way, my funds are just as protected offshore as they are with a CFTC broker. It is zero in both cases. So why on earth would anyone put 10-15 times more money with a broker (unprotected as mentioned above) for margin than necessary. Example, I wish to trade 1 standard lot of GBPUSD, I need $3,333 to open that trade with a CFTC broker, I need $200 with my offshore broker(s). So, if I am going to use say a 30 pip stop, my broker gets $300 of my money for margin on that trade, which is my actual risk. I am not giving a broker $3,000+ to risk $300.
    So, in a nutshell, I have better trading conditions, way more assets available to trade and the biggie…80% OF MY TRADING CAPITAL SITS IN AN FDIC INSURED BANK ACCOUNT AND NOT WITH ANY BROKER. To further mitigate that risk, the 20% “in play” is split among 4 brokers. So not one broker has more than 5% of my TOTAL TRADING CAPITAL. If a broker goes belly up, disappears, etc…I still have 95%. Some traders will risk more than 5% on a single trade lol.
    I DO NOT DO THIS FOR TAX PURPOSES. I pay taxes on my trading income just as I would with a scam CFTC/NFA broker.

Come up with whatever answer you may, but there is not one legitimate rebuttal for what I am stating here.

  • #7,650
  • Apr 22, 2022 2:11pm Apr 22, 2022 2:11pm
Quoting RJo
I thought your rock kicking post was made in jest, so I didn't laugh at you but laughed at your post.
-First time was a friendly nudge. But after your persistence and stubbornness, it seemed necessary to repeat.

Quoting RJo
I respectfully refrain from discussing anti vs pro government sentiments because this forum prohibits political discussion.
-You should refrain from discussing anything that is off-topic to this thread, out of respect, if anything. You waste people's time, not just your own. It is little different from spamming and derails the purpose of this thread. If you wish to debate the legalities of working with a remote prop firm, then you can do so by creating your own thread.

Quoting RJo
In any event, all forum members have a right to know what we might be getting into.
-Everyone must do their own, due diligence and weigh the associated risks accordingly. Not everyone here is based in the US and subject to the same regulations, which only furthers my point of this discussion being off-topic for this thread.
  • #7,651
  • Apr 22, 2022 3:26pm Apr 22, 2022 3:26pm
Mastermind, the starter of this thread, has kindly included within the scope of this thread:

Real traders discussion about Prop Firm activity...
Traders may discuss the pros and cons of various prop trading firms.
All discussion that is inline with thread title is welcome.
Keep it civil here guys and let's sort the real from the myth...

Therefore, the content of my posts is well within the scope of all 4 subtopics above. Having said that, I do like the idea of starting a separate thread more specifically to provide U.S. traders with information regarding forex prop firms and unlicensed brokers.

In contrast, non-civil content has been reported to the professional mods of this forum.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,652
  • Apr 22, 2022 3:37pm Apr 22, 2022 3:37pm
Quoting RJo
Mastermind, the starter of this thread, has kindly included within the scope of this thread: Real traders discussion about Prop Firm activity... Traders may discuss the pros and cons of various prop trading firms. All discussion that is inline with thread title is welcome. Keep it civil here guys and let's sort the real from the myth... Therefore, the content of my posts is well within the scope of all 4 subtopics above. Having said that, I do like the idea of starting a separate thread more specifically to provide U.S. traders with information...
Once again, can you review the pros of trading with CFTC brokers,

1. Is it the protection of funds? No, can't be, as there isn't any.
2. Is it the limitation of tradable assets? No, that would not be a pro, that would be a con
3. Is is the fact I must put 15-25X more money up (once again, remember, it's unprotected) for margin? No, that couldn't be it.
Hmmmm....what could the pros be......please, enlighten us......
Oh wait, I know, when they cheat with their frozen platform tricks, I can complain and they will get a fine and a slap on the wrist....yes, that's it, I knew there was something.

yes, I trade with two props as well, even better than offshore as NONE OF MY MONEY is at risk, even better than the 20% I have with the offshore brokers.
  • #7,653
  • Apr 22, 2022 3:43pm Apr 22, 2022 3:43pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Once again, can you review the pros of trading with CFTC brokers, 1. Is it the protection of funds? No, can't be, as there isn't any. 2. Is it the limitation of tradable assets? No, that would not be a pro, that would be a con 3. Is is the fact I must put 15-25X more money up (once again, remember, it's unprotected) for margin? No, that couldn't be it. Hmmmm....what could the pros be......please, enlighten us...... Oh wait, I know, when they cheat with their frozen platform tricks, I can complain and they will get a fine and a slap on the...
I just thought of it after I posted.......it's the higher spreads and commission. Everyone loves higher trading costs. This one just slipped my mind.
  • #7,654
  • Apr 22, 2022 3:47pm Apr 22, 2022 3:47pm
Quoting RJo
Mastermind, the starter of this thread, has kindly included within the scope of this thread: Real traders discussion about Prop Firm activity... Traders may discuss the pros and cons of various prop trading firms. All discussion that is inline with thread title is welcome. Keep it civil here guys and let's sort the real from the myth... Therefore, the content of my posts is well within the scope of all 4 subtopics above. Having said that, I do like the idea of starting a separate thread more specifically to provide U.S. traders with information...
I do not believe your posts line up with ANY of the first three as you are not and have no intention of using any of these firms, how can you share REAL trader experience or point out pros or cons
  • #7,655
  • Apr 22, 2022 3:56pm Apr 22, 2022 3:56pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I do not believe your posts line up with ANY of the first three as you are not and have no intention of using any of these firms, how can you share REAL trader experience or point out pros or cons
As you seem to enjoy fact based debate as well, I hereby reply:

Real trader... check.
Discussion about prop firm activity... major check.
Pros and cons of various prop firms... check.
Discussion that is inline with thread title is welcome [Forex Prop Firm Hub]... check.
Keep it civil... check, although someone else has not.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
  • #7,656
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:03pm Apr 22, 2022 4:03pm
Quoting RJo
Mastermind, the starter of this thread, has kindly included within the scope of this thread:
-You do not seem interested in learning more about trading with a remote prop firm or contributing to this thread in any meaningful way. Mastermind may disagree, and that is his choice to make.

EDIT: by the way, if you reported me for telling you to kick rocks, then you are going to have a tough time in life.
  • #7,657
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:05pm Apr 22, 2022 4:05pm
Quoting RJo
{quote} As you seem to enjoy fact based debate as well, I hereby reply: Real trader... check. Discussion about prop firm activity... major check. Pros and cons of various prop firms... check. Discussion that is inline with thread title is welcome [Forex Prop Firm Hub]... check. Keep it civil... check, although someone else has not.
You separated one and two..it is real trader discussion about prop firm activity.... so uncheck, you are not a trader with any prop firm , which is absolutely what Mastermind meant....real traders trading with these firms sharing real experiences....you are just full of opinions
Pros and cons......Once again, uncheck.....how would you know, you are not trading with any of them
Inline with thread title "Prop Firm Hub"....debatable, but once again your contributions are based on an already formed opinion and not on any real world experience.....so I'm going to go with.....uncheck
  • #7,658
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:06pm Apr 22, 2022 4:06pm
and I am still awaiting any remotely legitimate rebuttal to my other posts. I will be waiting patiently.
  • #7,659
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:44pm Apr 22, 2022 4:44pm
Quoting RJo
Mastermind, the starter of this thread, has kindly included within the scope of this thread: Real traders discussion about Prop Firm activity... Traders may discuss the pros and cons of various prop trading firms. All discussion that is inline with thread title is welcome. Keep it civil here guys and let's sort the real from the myth... Therefore, the content of my posts is well within the scope of all 4 subtopics above. Having said that, I do like the idea of starting a separate thread more specifically to provide U.S. traders with information...

Welcome back Paula version 1,564.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #7,660
  • Apr 22, 2022 4:50pm Apr 22, 2022 4:50pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Since the CFTC does not allow for segregation or protection of funds in any way, my funds are just as protected offshore as they are with a CFTC broker. It is zero in both cases... 80% OF MY TRADING CAPITAL SITS IN AN FDIC INSURED BANK ACCOUNT AND NOT WITH ANY BROKER. To further mitigate that risk, the 20% “in play” is split among 4 brokers.
That's quite nice for you in Saint Lucia. I have no idea what 80% of your savings has to do with forex prop firms, but the fact that you overwhelmingly enjoy the protection of the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation is very nice indeed.

It seems to me that any trader in any country (if the country has enough brokers) can open as many trading accounts as he/she likes.
An ounce of profitable logic is worth a pound of efficient code.
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