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  • #6,641
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:18pm Feb 16, 2022 8:18pm
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Would be interesting to know how closely the different traders entries matched up, im guessing they would have to be bang on to the exact pipette for them to be flagged?
It’s actually very easy to tell. Trades via a copy system are initiated at the same time and as a result are slipped, and sometimes heavily. Back end systems will recognize and alert when things like this occur.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,642
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:23pm Feb 16, 2022 8:23pm
Quoting 1odi
{quote} he said other non MFF OWN accounts, i think he just missed a dot there and that english isn t his mother language, so his own accounts. atleast that s how i read things. if that s not the case then his dumb, cos MFF faq section clearly states that they don t allow copy trading. plus there are so many ways to copy trades that i didn t think some1 could make that mistake.
And yet when asked to provide proof of this other account, he was unwilling to. Pretty easy to resolve.

I copy trade my MFF accounts to my FTMO and have for months. Never had any problems, and if there was ever any doubt, I could easily provide proof.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,643
  • Feb 16, 2022 8:30pm Feb 16, 2022 8:30pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} And yet when asked to provide proof of this other account, he was unwilling to. Pretty easy to resolve. I copy trade my MFF accounts to my FTMO and have for months. Never had any problems, and if there was ever any doubt, I could easily provide proof.
this is the case where ur right if he can t provide proof, he could ve copy trades in other ways and he d never have an issue. ignorance pays
  • #6,644
  • Feb 16, 2022 9:23pm Feb 16, 2022 9:23pm
Me checking my demo account which I bought from FTMO and MFF
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Allergic to bullshitters, never argue with fools
  • #6,645
  • Feb 16, 2022 10:21pm Feb 16, 2022 10:21pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} If you look at what he said earlier, he made a cagey statement that he was copying from “non-MFF accounts”. He did not state they were his nor did he state who’s they were. MFF asked about where these signals came from and he was unable or unwilling to reveal. If he was copying from his own account, (other than MFF) then he could simply provide the account that’s in his name. But he can’t. What does that that tell you?
And you got this all figured out, no ifs and or buts, just so crystal clear to you? "non-MFF accounts" was used to emphasize what the support agent was implying. They were, specifically, an FTMO challenge account of MINE, True Forex challenge account of MINE, and a personal broker account. If all I had to do was submit the accounts bearing my name and all the trade data, and that would be proof that a signal was not used I would have NO PROBLEM doing so. But is that what MFF requested from me? NO. The support agent went silent when I pressed exactly what do you need from me as proof, and the billing department hasn't got back to me since "I'll personally look into this and get back to you." They are not telling me what they need to see and simply denying the payment. If you were in my shoes and you're telling the truth, wouldn't you go berserk? And read that support agent's response again. He is implying that a non-MFF account trade copied in is a signal trade even if that non-MFF account is YOURS.
  • #6,646
  • Edited 1:43am Feb 17, 2022 1:31am | Edited 1:43am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} If you look at what he said earlier, he made a cagey statement that he was copying from “non-MFF accounts”. He did not state they were his nor did he state who’s they were. MFF asked about where these signals came from and he was unable or unwilling to reveal. If he was copying from his own account, (other than MFF) then he could simply provide the account that’s in his name. But he can’t. What does that that tell you?
Again mate, im not picking sides and trying to be honest in what i read from the post.

But I didnt read anything that said he was holding any information back, I thought he said that he was willing to disclose any proof that they require, and that they havent responded yet.

I interpreted the "non-mff own accounts" wording as "any account I use thats not MFF" for example this could be 1x FTMO account, 2 x 5%ers accounts and 1x personal account. Or a similair combination of any.

If the shoe was on your foot, what would/could you do to prove them wrong.?
  • #6,647
  • Feb 17, 2022 3:04am Feb 17, 2022 3:04am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Again mate, im not picking sides and trying to be honest in what i read from the post. But I didnt read anything that said he was holding any information back, I thought he said that he was willing to disclose any proof that they require, and that they havent responded yet. I interpreted the "non-mff own accounts" wording as "any account I use thats not MFF" for example this could be 1x FTMO account, 2 x 5%ers accounts and 1x personal account. Or a similair combination of any. If the shoe was on your foot, what would/could you do to prove...
I guess it is pretty much around the timestamp of the trade, like Cryptosurf mentions (a lot of trades coming, at the same exact time, on the same pair/instrument, from a lot of MFF accounts). This probably makes MFF assume that it's a signal service.

Thinking with a different perspective, even if he proves that this was coming from his FTMO account, it doesn't prove that it is not from a signal service.

I never used that (in fact I don't even know how to use a copier), but I suppose he could subscribe a service for a demo account in broker A, then copy it his FTMO account and then copy it from FTMO to his MFF account.

I'm not saying this happened. I'm just saying that's probably a way of turning around the prohibition of using signals in MFF. If MFF wants to catch those it has to use the suspicious around timestamp.

It would be nice to have a clarification of MFF about what happened there and why they flagged that as suspicious.
  • #6,648
  • Feb 17, 2022 3:34am Feb 17, 2022 3:34am
To be fair it is a very clear rule. You can only use a trade copier within your MFF account/s. I had this verified BEFORE I started using it.

Can you imagine trying to police this on every account that imported a signal, pretty much impossible?

And while MFF are maintaining that they want to attract real traders and need to see real evidence of trading from THEIR account I'm not going to argue with it.
  • #6,649
  • Feb 17, 2022 3:39am Feb 17, 2022 3:39am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I guess it is pretty much around the timestamp of the trade, like Cryptosurf mentions (a lot of trades coming, at the same exact time, on the same pair/instrument, from a lot of MFF accounts). This probably makes MFF assume that it's a signal service. Thinking with a different perspective, even if he proves that this was coming from his FTMO account, it doesn't prove that it is not from a signal service. I never used that (in fact I don't even know how to use a copier), but I suppose he could subscribe a service for a demo account in broker...
Yeah that makes sense, It could be that the copier is not involved in the scenario.

And if signals were involved, the origin of them could be either:

1. Copied from a telegram to MT4 ea (this would involve the use of a specific EA and im sure this would pop-up on their back end?)

2. The signals could be manually inputted. (There would be no way of proving this though and I guess thats where it stops)

I can see this from MFFs point of view though aswell, theyve got to protect their risk. And if something was flagged, then it is what it is.

I also know these "signal" groups sre pretty popular, therefore MFF/FTMO must have tons of flagged accounts flying in all the time, based on this, they cant really be wasting time trying to investigate hundreds of accounts that will in fact turn out to be dodgy in the end.

Will be interesting to see the outcome of this.
  • #6,650
  • Feb 17, 2022 3:43am Feb 17, 2022 3:43am
Quoting Fagin
To be fair it is a very clear rule. You can only use a trade copier within your MFF account/s. I had this verified BEFORE I started using it. Can you imagine trying to police this on every account that imported a signal, pretty much impossible? And while MFF are maintaining that they want to attract real traders and need to see real evidence of trading from THEIR account I'm not going to argue with it.

is it necessary to verify copy ea?

and if that ea from mql5 then how it can be provided. bcz cant download from mql site.

as far i know no need to get verification for copy ea.
  • #6,651
  • Feb 17, 2022 3:57am Feb 17, 2022 3:57am
Quoting inversio
{quote} is it necessary to verify copy ea? and if that ea from mql5 then how it can be provided. bcz cant download from mql site. as far i know no need to get verification for copy ea.
I didn't. I just told them which one I was planning to use.

If you have a receiver and a source on your account it's easy for them to see the path. However your MFF account must be the SOURCE of the signal, that's how I interpret the rules but you are best getting it from the horses mouth and not me.
  • #6,652
  • Feb 17, 2022 4:02am Feb 17, 2022 4:02am
Quoting inversio
{quote} is it necessary to verify copy ea? and if that ea from mql5 then how it can be provided. bcz cant download from mql site. as far i know no need to get verification for copy ea.
Just for clarification

He didnt say he used an EA to copy trades mate.

He said he used Duplikium which is a cloud copier (same as Social Trader Tools). Works in a different way to an EA copier.
  • #6,653
  • Feb 17, 2022 4:12am Feb 17, 2022 4:12am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Just for clarification He didnt say he used an EA to copy trades mate. He said he used Duplikium which is a cloud copier (same as Social Trader Tools). Works in a different way to an EA copier.
Getting a bit technical now for me.... if it is a cloud copied order what is the order type on MT4?

I have one manual from the signal side and obviously on the receiver it is listed as placed by EA..
  • #6,654
  • Feb 17, 2022 4:13am Feb 17, 2022 4:13am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Just for clarification He didnt say he used an EA to copy trades mate. He said he used Duplikium which is a cloud copier (same as Social Trader Tools). Works in a different way to an EA copier.

ok understood, this is actually mffs fault. they setup their staff team in such way that we r not getting specific information and later they can use against us.

i tried to clear this copy ea things, different live chat person gave different opinion. and via mail they didn't answer clearly as well.
  • #6,655
  • Feb 17, 2022 4:17am Feb 17, 2022 4:17am
Quoting inversio
{quote} ok understood, this is actually mffs fault. they setup their staff team in such way that we r not getting specific information and later they can use against us. i tried to clear this copy ea things, different live chat person gave different opinion. and via mail they didn't answer clearly as well.
Agree, their support is still lacking (edit) and needs to improve.
  • #6,656
  • Feb 17, 2022 5:42am Feb 17, 2022 5:42am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Getting a bit technical now for me.... if it is a cloud copied order what is the order type on MT4? I have one manual from the signal side and obviously on the receiver it is listed as placed by EA..
Im not 100% sure mate, ive only ever used an EA/local copier before.

The cloud copiers are web based, so all your accounts/slaves will be logged in and hosted on the copers server, in this case Duplikium.

You only need to have your main/master terminal open to take the trades and they are sent to the cloud and the orders are sent out to the slaves.

Although Im not sure how they do it on their end to be fair, there could be EAs involved on their servers, not too sure tbh.
  • #6,657
  • Feb 17, 2022 5:58am Feb 17, 2022 5:58am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Again mate, im not picking sides and trying to be honest in what i read from the post. But I didnt read anything that said he was holding any information back, I thought he said that he was willing to disclose any proof that they require, and that they havent responded yet. I interpreted the "non-mff own accounts" wording as "any account I use thats not MFF" for example this could be 1x FTMO account, 2 x 5%ers accounts and 1x personal account. Or a similair combination of any. If the shoe was on your foot, what would/could you do to prove...
Come on mate, you're not seriously asking how to prove an account is yours are you?

If an account is yours its easy to prove by providing screenshots/logs showing account credentials and your name.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,658
  • Feb 17, 2022 6:06am Feb 17, 2022 6:06am
Quoting Wiley7777
{quote} If all I had to do was submit the accounts bearing my name and all the trade data, and that would be proof that a signal was not used I would have NO PROBLEM doing so. But is that what MFF requested from me? NO.
According to you, their last response they were literally asking that:

We would be requiring the proof that you were not using any signal service on your account. You mentioned you used trade copier to copy trades from your personal account.

Copy trading of others persons signals is not allowed with us. As those trades (even though they are from your personal accounts) were not from your MFF account.

Thank you.
Regards,
Noor Wasay
Customer Support Agent
www.myforexfunds.com

So why didn't you just provide proof that those accounts you copied from are yours? Its not rocket science.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #6,659
  • Feb 17, 2022 6:25am Feb 17, 2022 6:25am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Come on mate, you're not seriously asking how to prove an account is yours are you? If an account is yours its easy to prove by providing screenshots/logs showing account credentials and your name.
Come on man, I didnt say that it wasnt easy to prove.

I was saying, that he said he willing to send in any evidence that would be required.

And literally just stated the individual forms of evidence that could potentially be used to crosscheck it.

Which im guessing he will do, if hes got nothing to hide.
  • #6,660
  • Feb 17, 2022 6:42am Feb 17, 2022 6:42am
Quoting Paulscaff1
{quote} Come on man, I didnt say that it wasnt easy to prove. I was saying, that he said he willing to send in any evidence that would be required. And literally just stated the individual forms of evidence that could potentially be used to crosscheck it. Which im guessing he will do, if hes got nothing to hide.
No worries, they did specifically ask him, so im not sure why he didn't. There may be a communication gap, as it appears English isn't his native language.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
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