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  • #6,041
  • Dec 14, 2021 11:03am Dec 14, 2021 11:03am
Quoting inversio
so what I get we need to leave at least 5% profit in our acc to continue trading. means we will trade for our own money like direct funding plans ...
-Unless a firm is also bringing something to the table, they should not expect traders to use their own profits to serve as draw-down in order to protect the firm's capital. Any firm that does this may not have your best interests in mind.

That being said, some firms allow you to 'scale up' and require you to keep profits in your account in order to do so. Although it is a bit misleading, it does actually serve a benefit to the trader, because it allows the trader to increase their draw-down allowance, thereby further-insulating themselves from losing their account(s).

In truth, they are not really offering you anything except a little bit more freedom...but only after you have proven yourself. But actually doubling your account? I really doubt it. When a firm is offering you a 200K account with a 20K max/10K daily draw-down, they could easily achieve that with a 40K account, in reality, depending on broker margin-stop levels. So when you 'scale up' and your profits are serving as the new draw-down, then there is really no need to increase the account balance. In other words, I do not think that traders are actually getting a 400K account when they 'scale up' from a 200K account, because there is no need to tie up capital like that.

In the case of MFF's direct funding account, they still use your profits to serve as draw-down, but they use their portion of the profits for this, which is better. Their direct funding program is still not better than most other options, but at least they allow you to withdraw your profits.

Other firms, like Ment Funding, will trail your max draw-down up to 5%, where it is then locked-in at your initial account balance and no longer trails. Although this allows the trader to increase their overall draw-down allowance by padding the account with profits, the trader is also subject to violation if he/she withdraws all profits from the account. What this means is that the trader is obligated to leave funds in the account at all times in order to serve as draw-down protection. They do this to protect investor capital. An important point to note, though, is that your daily draw-down allowance does not change like it does with other firms/programs. It is up to traders to decide if this quid pro quo is reasonable or not.
  • #6,042
  • Dec 14, 2021 11:04am Dec 14, 2021 11:04am
Some updated MFF stats for oct/nov: https://myforexfunds.com/myforexfunds-stats-are-back/

So for October, only 0.22% of people who attempt a challenge manage to pass all the phases and reach their 1st profit split (i.e. they have passed phase1, phase2 and traded for a month to earn a profit split) - I have to admit that is pretty surprising considering MFF is one of the 'relatively' easier challenges to pass.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #6,043
  • Dec 14, 2021 11:25am Dec 14, 2021 11:25am
Quoting nebby
Some updated MFF stats for oct/nov
-Very interesting data. Not super surprising, although, I wonder what the real numbers are for this:

Quote
Over 60% of traders in our database do not use a stop loss and have a high risk of ruin.

I think that the recent interview with founder said that it was only around 5% that use a stop-loss, but maybe that number has changed.
  • #6,044
  • Dec 14, 2021 11:26am Dec 14, 2021 11:26am
Quoting inversio
{quote} yes loss for both trader and firm
But 1% for trader and 4% for company! And if you gain profit of 5000(to 105000) you can withdraw4999 and trade private account.
  • #6,045
  • Dec 14, 2021 11:58am Dec 14, 2021 11:58am
Quoting Triglav
And if you gain profit of 5000(to 105000) you can withdraw4999 and trade private account.
-Leaving you with $1 draw-down allowance?
  • #6,046
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:11pm Dec 14, 2021 12:11pm
Quoting nebby
Some updated MFF stats for oct/nov: https://myforexfunds.com/myforexfunds-stats-are-back/ So for October, only 0.22% of people who attempt a challenge manage to pass all the phases and reach their 1st profit split (i.e. they have passed phase1, phase2 and traded for a month to earn a profit split) - I have to admit that is pretty surprising considering MFF is one of the 'relatively' easier challenges to pass.
MFF November 2021
Let's assume 10,000 traders start Phase 1.
10% pass Phase 1 - we have 1,000 traders moving to Phase 2.
24% pass Phase 2 - we have 240 traders trading live Funded Account.
3% reach 1st profit split - we have 7 traders getting paid.

7 traders out of 10,000. Let that sink in.
If you plan to gamble and waste money on Challenges, don't. Just send them to someone who really needs them and at least you'll do a good deed. Or send some to me .
  • #6,047
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:26pm Dec 14, 2021 12:26pm
Quoting endgame99
{quote} MFF November 2021 Let's assume 10,000 traders start Phase 1. 10% pass Phase 1 - we have 1,000 traders moving to Phase 2. 24% pass Phase 2 - we have 240 traders trading live Funded Account. 3% reach 1st profit split - we have 7 traders getting paid. 7 traders out of 10,000. Let that sink in. If you plan to gamble and waste money on Challenges, don't. Just send them to someone who really needs them and at least you'll do a good deed. Or send some to me .
Yeah, November makes even grimmer reading (only 0.07% pass). I highly doubt these 'traders' have been trading long/hard enough to develop a decent profitable system on their personal accounts as many are even blowing the verification phase. I know prop firms are not a scam/trap as I have been paid a decent amount from my live accounts without any quibbles from MFF, on the other hand, the stats do suggest that the majority are simply trying their luck or haven't learnt basic risk management.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #6,048
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:27pm Dec 14, 2021 12:27pm
Quoting endgame99
{quote} MFF November 2021 Let's assume 10,000 traders start Phase 1. 10% pass Phase 1 - we have 1,000 traders moving to Phase 2. 24% pass Phase 2 - we have 240 traders trading live Funded Account. 3% reach 1st profit split - we have 7 traders getting paid. 7 traders out of 10,000. Let that sink in. If you plan to gamble and waste money on Challenges, don't. Just send them to someone who really needs them and at least you'll do a good deed. Or send some to me .
Very confused by the numbers as they also state 5700 "new" live accounts. So either 7.9 million folks attempted a challenge or that "new" live accounts number includes direct funding as well?
  • #6,049
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:33pm Dec 14, 2021 12:33pm
Quoting nebby
{quote} Yeah, November makes even grimmer reading (only 0.07% pass). I highly doubt these 'traders' have been trading long/hard enough to develop a decent profitable system on their personal accounts as many are even blowing the verification phase. I know prop firms are not a scam/trap as I have been paid a decent amount from my live accounts without any quibbles from MFF, on the other hand, the stats do suggest that the majority are simply trying their luck or haven't learnt basic risk management.
Yes, just like folks who fund and keep topping up their personal accounts. To do it right is a minimum of 2 years trading IMO. You need to understand risk management, find a system with an edge and most importantly learn trading psychology. When I started I blew up numerous $200-300 accounts, but I went in knowing that. Which is why I used $200-300 accounts, demo doesn't cut it as you need to learn the emotional attachment of real money, regardless of how small. Bottom line, if you have not learned to become profitable on a personal account, larger capital is not going to help and you truly have no business attempting these challenges. The capital is only beneficial to profitable traders who do not have the disposable income to trade larger capita or to increase the capital you are trading already..
  • #6,050
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:39pm Dec 14, 2021 12:39pm
Quoting nebby
{quote} Yeah, November makes even grimmer reading (only 0.07% pass). I highly doubt these 'traders' have been trading long/hard enough to develop a decent profitable system on their personal accounts as many are even blowing the verification phase. I know prop firms are not a scam/trap as I have been paid a decent amount from my live accounts without any quibbles from MFF, on the other hand, the stats do suggest that the majority are simply trying their luck or haven't learnt basic risk management.
I think November is so bad because MFF got flooded with Funding Talent traders. I also think that most traders who do these Challenges are just looking at it as a competition and they try if they get lucky. My guess is that over 90% of traders who pay for Challenge would not be able to turn profit on $200 account after 6 months of trading. It is what it is.

For me it is a good deal. MFF will get nice income from gamblers and it helps them sustain their business and I will be able to use their service and generate income.
  • #6,051
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:40pm Dec 14, 2021 12:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Very confused by the numbers as they also state 5700 "new" live accounts. So either 7.9 million folks attempted a challenge or that "new" live accounts number includes direct funding as well?
I think new live accounts number has accelerated accounts included.
  • #6,052
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:40pm Dec 14, 2021 12:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Very confused by the numbers as they also state 5700 "new" live accounts. So either 7.9 million folks attempted a challenge or that "new" live accounts number includes direct funding as well?

yes it includes the accelerated ones. Its funded traders over all. I ask the same question.
  • #6,053
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:43pm Dec 14, 2021 12:43pm
The stats make for interesting concepts. If you a-book traders who reach first month profit, your corporate risk is still almost 0 and you stay legit whilst not killing your revenues.

I also find it interesting because its not the companies fault that traders are shit. But you only need to spend 5 minutes in discord to realize just how shit most people who are trying this type of prop are. Most people don't even know what it is they are trading, what swap or rollover is, how margin is calculated etc. They just now "BLUE LINE GO UP DRRRRRRR"
  • #6,054
  • Dec 14, 2021 12:48pm Dec 14, 2021 12:48pm
Quoting Takisd
The stats make for interesting concepts. If you a-book traders who reach first month profit, your corporate risk is still almost 0 and you stay legit whilst not killing your revenues. I also find it interesting because its not the companies fault that traders are shit. But you only need to spend 5 minutes in discord to realize just how shit most people who are trying this type of prop are. Most people don't even know what it is they are trading, what swap or rollover is, how margin is calculated etc. They just now "BLUE LINE GO UP DRRRRRRR"
I completely agree. I look at general chat on Discord and ask myself if these people already have an ID. For some reason it never occurred to them that they could read the website to find out the conditions of the product they are buying. It does feel like that most of them learned about forex week ago or they just bought magic EA and had a dream of becoming millionaires.
  • #6,055
  • Dec 14, 2021 1:21pm Dec 14, 2021 1:21pm
I was also curious about the live account statistics. Including the other account types makes sense.

I have also seen the discord chat where people are confused about things like varying contract sizes for indices, trading breaks and end-of-session volatility etc.. There are obviously a very large amount of traders that are not experienced, that are taking these challenges.

I personally spoke with a gentleman on FB that told me that he keeps failing challenges. I asked him what he was doing and made several recommendations for him to try, but it seems that he just cannot stop repeating the same mistakes over and over again. He even admits that he knows that what he is doing is wrong. It just goes to show how important discipline in trading really is.

I told him that, even after years of trading, there are still some days where I kick myself for doing something that I know that I shouldn't be doing.
  • #6,056
  • Dec 14, 2021 1:28pm Dec 14, 2021 1:28pm
Quoting Takisd
The stats make for interesting concepts. If you a-book traders who reach first month profit, your corporate risk is still almost 0 and you stay legit whilst not killing your revenues. I also find it interesting because its not the companies fault that traders are shit. But you only need to spend 5 minutes in discord to realize just how shit most people who are trying this type of prop are. Most people don't even know what it is they are trading, what swap or rollover is, how margin is calculated etc. They just now "BLUE LINE GO UP DRRRRRRR"
lol "blue line go up". Hilarious.
  • #6,057
  • Dec 14, 2021 1:51pm Dec 14, 2021 1:51pm
Quoting nebby
Some updated MFF stats for oct/nov: https://myforexfunds.com/myforexfunds-stats-are-back/ So for October, only 0.22% of people who attempt a challenge manage to pass all the phases and reach their 1st profit split (i.e. they have passed phase1, phase2 and traded for a month to earn a profit split) - I have to admit that is pretty surprising considering MFF is one of the 'relatively' easier challenges to pass.
Hmm, very interesting! FTMO says 8% go live on average. MFF has only about 2.4%.
  • #6,058
  • Dec 14, 2021 2:03pm Dec 14, 2021 2:03pm
Quoting Thoughts
{quote}Hmm, very interesting! FTMO says 8% go live on average. MFF has only about 2.4%.

I doubt FTMO's stats. 8% is breaking broker norms and their audience is equally as stupid.
  • #6,059
  • Edited 2:27pm Dec 14, 2021 2:12pm | Edited 2:27pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, just like folks who fund and keep topping up their personal accounts. To do it right is a minimum of 2 years trading IMO. You need to understand risk management, find a system with an edge and most importantly learn trading psychology. When I started I blew up numerous $200-300 accounts, but I went in knowing that. Which is why I used $200-300 accounts, demo doesn't cut it as you need to learn the emotional attachment of real money, regardless of how small. Bottom line, if you have not learned to become profitable on a personal account,...
For those that have struggled to profit from an evaluation funded account (I am ignoring direct funding, accelerated, rapid etc as I don't like these models at all), some tips that helped me:
- Trade a personal account for at least 6 months (preferably 1 year, but I'd say 6 months at the minimum) and ensure you are profitable most months. 3-5% is a good target per month
- Only then try a prop firm trial on demo (try to pass 2-3 ftmo free trials)
- Finally, by this point you should be quite confident and its time to try a MFF 100K evaluation, right? No, despite its good cost/drawdown ratio I would still pretty much advice the majority to go with a tiny $10K account on MFF.
- If you are able to get to a first profit split, use profits from that that to buy a $20K challenge and repeat this process until you are buying $200K challenges.
- Its a long winded way of doing it but much more sensible, the basic idea is that you risk more as you have proven your abilities.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #6,060
  • Dec 14, 2021 2:47pm Dec 14, 2021 2:47pm
Quoting nebby
{quote} For those that have struggled to profit from an evaluation funded account (I am ignoring direct funding, accelerated, rapid etc as I don't like these models at all), some tips that helped me: - Trade a personal account for at least 6 months (preferably 1 year, but I'd say 6 months at the minimum) and ensure you are profitable most months. 3-5% is a good target per month - Only then try a prop firm trial on demo (try to pass 2-3 ftmo free trials) - Finally, by this point you should be quite confident and its time to try a MFF 100K evaluation,...
You have to pass 1st evaluation, after that plans come in place they ask 10% you know what dose that mean 90% luck!? If you have 5% month and try to force MM you can fail do to these, is hard game at all.. Just find me trader who have 2 months with same wining % you couldn't.
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