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  • #3,781
  • Sep 13, 2021 5:17pm Sep 13, 2021 5:17pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You have to make $1,000 trading lot sizes as if you only have $1,000, forget the 20K for a sec. It's 100% gain, just like it would be in the personal account. To make 5% with 1,000 DD max, what are you going to risk per trade? If you have 1,000 in a personal account with 100% DD allowed, what size are you going to trade? Those sizes should be exactly the same
You say it should be easy to make $1,000 on a 20K account. Yes, if DD was unlimited. You're attempting to make $1,000 before you lose $1,000. It's a 100% gain.
Trust me, if it were a better model, I'd be doing it. I run numbers on these things all day long.
  • #3,782
  • Edited 5:48pm Sep 13, 2021 5:37pm | Edited 5:48pm
I will say this about the accredited/rapid/direct payment plans...

I think the one scenario where they could be more rewarding than dumping the fee in a personal account is if you reside in a regulated jurisdiction (Can/EU/UK/US/Japan ect) limited to <30:1 leverage + you have been completely brainwashed by regulatory agencies into believing going offshore is way too risky + your stops on average are <20 pips requiring margin > capital to trade the same position size as prop account.

I think the above is the only way these plans win vs a personal account. if you look at all the popular online prop firms site rankings, their #1 jurisdiction is the united states where market share leader Gain & new comer IG are basically 20-25:1 on most pairs.
  • #3,783
  • Sep 13, 2021 5:48pm Sep 13, 2021 5:48pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Sorry don't know anything about them. Looked at their webpage and notice that they don't allow trading indices and only offer 10:1 leverage. Give them a miss IMHO
Thanks
  • #3,784
  • Sep 13, 2021 6:00pm Sep 13, 2021 6:00pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You say it should be easy to make $1,000 on a 20K account. Yes, if DD was unlimited. You're attempting to make $1,000 before you lose $1,000. It's a 100% gain. Trust me, if it were a better model, I'd be doing it. I run numbers on these things all day long.
Lol Don't worry. Mtinifx will see the light along the line.
Remember when you were a firm believer in the 5ers regular model? until you put the theory to the test?
Sometimes, the words and hypotheticals aren't just enough...
  • #3,785
  • Sep 13, 2021 7:02pm Sep 13, 2021 7:02pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol Don't worry. Mtinifx will see the light along the line. Remember when you were a firm believer in the 5ers regular model? until you put the theory to the test? Sometimes, the words and hypotheticals aren't just enough...
Oh, do I remember!!! lol. I even recently stopped posting about these models but I just hate to see fellow traders not maximize their potential. So mtinfx is going to pay $990 for 1K in DD and wants to make 5% per week, which would be 1K. If you can make 5% per week with 1K in DD, why not pay $949 ($50 less) for 24K in DD.

#1. You have 24x the DD to work with

#2. If you were going to make 5% per week with 1K DD, should be cake with 24K and you'll pass the eval in 8 days!!!!!
  • #3,786
  • Sep 14, 2021 1:54am Sep 14, 2021 1:54am
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Allergic to bullshitters, never argue with fools
  • #3,787
  • Sep 14, 2021 2:01pm Sep 14, 2021 2:01pm
Saw Josh in discord for MFF destroy a guy who was attacking them because of the same reason you guys were attacking and he made some valid points without denying the mathematics in the excel.

Firstly, margin comes into play on the accelerated account. If you are a scalper for example, you can open bigger trades with still a reasonable risk profile.

Next drawdown. If you lose the same dollar value, not only can you not open the same position size or similar as the loss, but your percentage to return to break even is significantly higher. It is easy to go from -1% to 0% than -10% to 0%.

There are some interesting factors in the argument. I still don't like the model but it makes a bit more sense as to why some people do now.

The Math only works if you can open the exact same position sizes at all times.
  • #3,788
  • Sep 14, 2021 2:30pm Sep 14, 2021 2:30pm
Quoting Takisd
Saw Josh in discord for MFF destroy a guy who was attacking them because of the same reason you guys were attacking and he made some valid points without denying the mathematics in the excel. Firstly, margin comes into play on the accelerated account. If you are a scalper for example, you can open bigger trades with still a reasonable risk profile. Next drawdown. If you lose the same dollar value, not only can you not open the same position size or similar as the loss, but your percentage to return to break even is significantly higher. It is easy...
I'm actually glad that valid points were made regarding that model. I always looked at it from a pure math perspective. I'm probably biased also due to being funded on the eval model. Like you, don't prefer it, but glad to see it can provide value to those folks choosing that route. Plus, I would never want to piss Josh off, he has been freaking awesome to me. I feel like I have one on one support.
  • #3,789
  • Sep 14, 2021 3:09pm Sep 14, 2021 3:09pm
Quoting Takisd
Saw Josh in discord for MFF destroy a guy who was attacking them because of the same reason you guys were attacking and he made some valid points without denying the mathematics in the excel. Firstly, margin comes into play on the accelerated account. If you are a scalper for example, you can open bigger trades with still a reasonable risk profile. Next drawdown. If you lose the same dollar value, not only can you not open the same position size or similar as the loss, but your percentage to return to break even is significantly higher. It is easy...
I love this model. I see people bashing it but one thing I learned in 25-30 years around traders is not to argue, each trader has his opinion,
some based of their type of trading some based on ignorance, but all are correct. No 2 traders trade alike and I do shake my head when
I see noobs say this is better and that is worst cause it is obvious they have not been trading long enough, cause they base it all in numbers
or on their greediness, but I can't help them, cause they know everything (I definitely don't).
There is value in every model as long as it fits to your trading and something many forget your temperament.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it
  • #3,790
  • Sep 14, 2021 3:15pm Sep 14, 2021 3:15pm
Quoting Takisd
Saw Josh in discord for MFF destroy a guy who was attacking them because of the same reason you guys were attacking and he made some valid points without denying the mathematics in the excel. Firstly, margin comes into play on the accelerated account. If you are a scalper for example, you can open bigger trades with still a reasonable risk profile. Next drawdown. If you lose the same dollar value, not only can you not open the same position size or similar as the loss, but your percentage to return to break even is significantly higher. It is easy...
Lol i could actually challenge the factors you quoted Josh to have mentioned but

This -
Quote
The Math only works if you can open the exact same position sizes at all times
is an important aspect to back my argument and i'm not 100% sure the margin on the personal account would accommodate the exact same Lot sizes after some growth or after some losses. Couldn't be bothered to do the calculations either.

Like you said... If it's of value to someone, by all means!! In the end what matters is how each program appeals to us as individuals, based on our preferences and trading goals.

I mean, partly due to boredom, my stupid ass once got cajoled into trying out MFF's rapid account for 10% profit split. (Thank You MtiniFx, Maflip, Fxsniper and Freefox )
  • #3,791
  • Sep 14, 2021 3:29pm Sep 14, 2021 3:29pm
Quoting PayTheBid
{quote} I love this model. I see people bashing it but one thing I learned in 25-30 years around traders is not to argue, each trader has his opinion, some based of their type of trading some based on ignorance, but all are correct. No 2 traders trade alike and I do shake my head when I see noobs say this is better and that is worst cause it is obvious they have not been trading long enough, cause they base it all in numbers or on their greediness, but I can't help them, cause they know everything (I definitely don't). There is value in every model...
Yes, regardless of model, MFF is clear cut #1 now. I think it's more important we help each other to align with the right companies and steer away from the scams. I believe that was the intention of Mastermind when starting the thread. Share experiences good and bad.

1. MFF
2. FTMO
3. 5%ers

All 3 are known to pay and ALSO have never had a report of not paying

I mean you cannot even find legitimate payouts from any of the others, and the ones you can, there are just as many complaints of not getting paid

TBH, don't think any of the others are even worth consideration. Some in here are happy with LUX, if I remember correctly? Anyone paid from them yet?
  • #3,792
  • Sep 14, 2021 3:40pm Sep 14, 2021 3:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, regardless of model, MFF is clear cut #1 now. I think it's more important we help each other to align with the right companies and steer away from the scams. I believe that was the intention of Mastermind when starting the thread. Share experiences good and bad. 1. MFF 2. FTMO 3. 5%ers All 3 are known to pay and ALSO have never had a report of not paying I mean you cannot even find legitimate payouts from any of the others, and the ones you can, there are just as many complaints of not getting paid TBH, don't think any of the others...
Yes till now, these 3 are the top I would say. Also Lux has good reviews and I like Buoy, the only problem with Buoy is the account is way to small even
if you go in with 10 accounts, so I do not want to micromanage. Now I have to be honest DT4X got my attention BUT there are no payouts.
Thought for a minute to gamble it and sign up and post everything here but I am too busy with other projects at the moment.
I noticed someone else did sign up, if they do not make it to the payout level I will sign up just for the heck of it.
But my favorite of all till now is MFF, I like Josh and the rest of the gang, they try hard to make things work,
that means a lot to me.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it
  • #3,793
  • Sep 14, 2021 3:48pm Sep 14, 2021 3:48pm
Quoting PayTheBid
{quote} Yes till now, these 3 are the top I would say. Also Lux has good reviews and I like Buoy, the only problem with Buoy is the account is way to small even if you go in with 10 accounts, so I do not want to micromanage. Now I have to be honest DT4X got my attention BUT there are no payouts. Thought for a minute to gamble it and sign up and post everything here but I am too busy with other projects at the moment. I noticed someone else did sign up, if they do not make it to the payout level I will sign up just for the heck of it. But my favorite...
Yes, same here. It's not just the trading conditions and timely payouts. It's the fact the customer support is top notch and then to add to it, I feel I have a personal contact I can hit up anytime I need something. That puts them over the top.
  • #3,794
  • Sep 14, 2021 4:14pm Sep 14, 2021 4:14pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, same here. It's not just the trading conditions and timely payouts. It's the fact the customer support is top notch and then to add to it, I feel I have a personal contact I can hit up anytime I need something. That puts them over the top.
Good to know, I’m getting ready for phase II on the first 200k Eval account. Almost done with a second 200k Phase I as well.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #3,795
  • Sep 14, 2021 6:41pm Sep 14, 2021 6:41pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Oh, do I remember!!! lol. I even recently stopped posting about these models but I just hate to see fellow traders not maximize their potential. So mtinfx is going to pay $990 for 1K in DD and wants to make 5% per week, which would be 1K. If you can make 5% per week with 1K in DD, why not pay $949 ($50 less) for 24K in DD. #1. You have 24x the DD to work with #2. If you were going to make 5% per week with 1K DD, should be cake with 24K and you'll pass the eval in 8 days!!!!!
Well it's no good continually arguing about this. I still think you're wrong. But the proof will be in the pudding, right?

I have taken a $20k Accelerated account. Just waiting on my login details. Let's see if I can make my point.

I hope to see you put up a TE for your $1000 trading account - will you take the challenge?
  • #3,796
  • Sep 14, 2021 7:07pm Sep 14, 2021 7:07pm
Anyone else part of a bunch of groups about prop firms?

There are some knob ends crying about how they aren't being paid for their news straddling stuff that got perfect execution for magical lot sizes.

I'm so tired of these morons pooping up the airwaves with their bs. News straddling is like what? 2009 broker abuse? People have never made good money straddling news on a live account anywhere since like 2009 when brokers started using bridges. This is the dumbest shit ever.

I saw MFF had the groups coming in too and hitting old prices...

Leeches just fk off to your signal groups already and leave the prop industry alone so those who actually trade can get paid.
  • #3,797
  • Sep 14, 2021 7:16pm Sep 14, 2021 7:16pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Well it's no good continually arguing about this. I still think you're wrong. But the proof will be in the pudding, right? I have taken a $20k Accelerated account. Just waiting on my login details. Let's see if I can make my point. I hope to see you put up a TE for your $1000 trading account - will you take the challenge?
Yes, we are all here to succeed. I wish you the best with the account. As far as putting up a TE, did it once, failed miserably, I think it's a psychological thing for me now.
  • #3,798
  • Sep 14, 2021 7:17pm Sep 14, 2021 7:17pm
Quoting Takisd
Anyone else part of a bunch of groups about prop firms? There are some knob ends crying about how they aren't being paid for their news straddling stuff that got perfect execution for magical lot sizes. I'm so tired of these morons pooping up the airwaves with their bs. News straddling is like what? 2009 broker abuse? People have never made good money straddling news on a live account anywhere since like 2009 when brokers started using bridges. This is the dumbest shit ever. I saw MFF had the groups coming in too and hitting old prices... Leeches...
I watched the chat between Josh @ MFF and another guy, and he was really pushing his luck with his arguments. I still don't understand how he was able to trade that way, unless both buy and sell are inside the spread?!
  • #3,799
  • Sep 14, 2021 7:28pm Sep 14, 2021 7:28pm
Quoting karun
{quote} I watched the chat between Josh @ MFF and another guy, and he was really pushing his luck with his arguments. I still don't understand how he was able to trade that way, unless both buy and sell are inside the spread?!

When the market is spiking to stick stop orders in front of it as mt4 is refreshing and you get prices that didnt exist. If you look online for forex broker scam reviews its usually a bunch of idiots who do that knowingly and the broker saying "nah bud I am not paying your sleezy ass". Its basically people believing they should never be able to lose ever. Then they go to groups and start shitting on the company because they are cheaters.

I saw the same conversation and i tried to not just jump in and abuse the stupid ass. Such a dumb argument.... "You should warn us first before banning".. what a dumb argument.
  • #3,800
  • Sep 14, 2021 7:34pm Sep 14, 2021 7:34pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} When the market is spiking to stick stop orders in front of it as mt4 is refreshing and you get prices that didnt exist. If you look online for forex broker scam reviews its usually a bunch of idiots who do that knowingly and the broker saying "nah bud I am not paying your sleezy ass". Its basically people believing they should never be able to lose ever. Then they go to groups and start shitting on the company because they are cheaters. I saw the same conversation and i tried to not just jump in and abuse the stupid ass. Such a dumb argument.......
Funnily he kept on arguing over and over. It was frustrating and time pass entertainment at the same time
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