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  • #1,601
  • Jun 17, 2021 8:14am Jun 17, 2021 8:14am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} Question, who regulates FTMO? The regulator will be able to tell you if they are licensed for real accounts. That would be good to know.
From a financial services industry perspective, most of these pseudo-prop companies do not fall under the control of a financial regulator.

1. You do not deposit your own money into their trading system, so they are not brokers.
2. They do not accept investments from third parties and let others trade with them, so they are no asset managers.

They are most closely matched with the leisure industry: you buy a ticket to enter a game of skill, and if you play by the rules you can win a prize.

Then you have firms such as Darwinex:
1. You do deposit your own money into their trading system. They are FCA regulated as a Broker.
2. They do accept investments from third parties and let others trade with them. They are FCA regulated as an Asset Manager.

Not plugging anyone, just pointing out the difference.
Always read Post #1
  • #1,602
  • Jun 17, 2021 8:23am Jun 17, 2021 8:23am
Quoting jagzuk
{quote} From a financial services industry perspective, most of these pseudo-prop companies do not fall under the control of a financial regulator. 1. You do not deposit your own money into their trading system, so they are not brokers. 2. They do not accept investments from third parties and let others trade with them, so they are no asset managers. They are most closely matched with the leisure industry: you buy a ticket to enter a game of skill, and if you play by the rules you can win a prize. Then you have firms such as Darwinex: 1. You do...
how do they pay profitable traders in your view?
  • #1,603
  • Jun 17, 2021 8:51am Jun 17, 2021 8:51am
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} how do they pay profitable traders in your view?
dr_who mentioned N.N.Taleb. To paraphrase him:

- You take 100 people and charge them $1000 to enter a competition. You now have $100,000.
- The game is Russian roulette (lets say it's a six-round revolver with 1 chamber loaded).
- Each time they play (if they survive) they get $2000 (twice their entry free) added to their prize fund
- The survivors from each round (about 83%) get to play again .... for free!
- You repeat the game 25 times.
- Surprisingly there could still be 1, max 2 survivors who you each owe $50,000. But you pocketed $100,000 in fees so worst case you break even,

Which of the 100 people do you think will brag about their winnings?
Always read Post #1
  • #1,604
  • Jun 17, 2021 9:57am Jun 17, 2021 9:57am
Quoting doji
{quote} Nice to know, Mox. Look forward to your interview with Oliver one of these days...Keep us posted, ok? I still think Lux is the real deal and even with the change of rules (which they badly need to rethink!), I'm willing to play the long game and stick it out with them. That KPMG certification's a nice bonus, too, btw.
The 4% relative drawdown rule will deter potential traders. If they fear that some traders may trade aggressively after getting professional account, they could introduce 7%(or 6%) relative drawdown + 4% fixed drawdown. As each stage requires 10% profit, I think 7% relative drawdown is reasonable.
  • #1,605
  • Jun 17, 2021 4:25pm Jun 17, 2021 4:25pm
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} Exactly right. At the moment I think the only firm that may not be on demo is 5ers because they are based in Israel. But I cant confirm. With most fund providers you are on demo after you pass evaluation and therefore your "prop" firm is in the business of collecting fees, not funding traders. The model relies heavily on the fact that most will end up failing, so the big pay-outs are highly unlikely. But of course eventually they do and the house of cards collapses. It's good to get funded, but I think it is wise to be very selective. Dont...
Le, do you think he is spot on with his analysis of how the challenge model prop firms work?
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  • #1,606
  • Jun 17, 2021 4:34pm Jun 17, 2021 4:34pm
Quoting jagzuk
Which of the 100 people do you think will brag about their winnings?
in a group of 100 retailers, statistically none over a long enough period; but the fee taker will be grinning from ear to ear

nevertheless, fees (perhaps copy trading) is the likely answer to my question
  • #1,607
  • Jun 17, 2021 4:44pm Jun 17, 2021 4:44pm
So if a trader is consistently profitable month over month with a prop firm, let's use FTMO as an example, as they payout over a million per month......Do we think they ever copy those particular traders? I mean, that would actually be a smart business decision at that point, no?
I am pretty confident My Forex Funds clients are trading on live accounts once funded as well and am almost 100% certain 5%ers traders are as well.
  • #1,608
  • Jun 17, 2021 5:14pm Jun 17, 2021 5:14pm
Quoting pipmaster77
So if a trader is consistently profitable month over month with a prop firm, let's use FTMO as an example, as they payout over a million per month......Do we think they ever copy those particular traders? I mean, that would actually be a smart business decision at that point, no? I am pretty confident My Forex Funds clients are trading on live accounts once funded as well and am almost 100% certain 5%ers traders are as well.
I thing that they might be able copy some trades via soft to real market.Probably not all of them.They might have some "trades cherry picking algorithm,but if they want to find good traders,they have to accept also average and work only with evaluation fee it will be pretty short time, shortsighted strategy.
Remember,with their rules,risk if not that great and with millions to invest just 1-2% monthly will beat the market.
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't,you're right. H.F.
  • #1,609
  • Jun 17, 2021 5:18pm Jun 17, 2021 5:18pm
Quoting MoxFulder
{quote} Le, do you think he is spot on with his analysis of how the challenge model prop firms work?

I dont know. But I suspect copy trading is how most of the sustainable models will work.

Regardless, it is worth knowing how the funders are paying their traders so as to establish sustainability of the business model; and thereby avoid wasting time with the unsustainable ones.
  • #1,610
  • Jun 17, 2021 5:51pm Jun 17, 2021 5:51pm
Quoting Le.Metier
{quote} I dont know. But I suspect copy trading is how most of the sustainable models will work. Regardless, it is worth knowing how the funders are paying their traders so as to establish sustainability of the business model; and thereby avoid wasting time with the unsustainable ones.
Exactly, with all of the new ones popping up and the fact that 80% will probably be gone in less than 6 months, very important to know which ones will be around long-term. More important than the fee is the time required to get to the funded stage. It's the reason I made the decision to ALWAYS run the personal account alongside the prop accounts and dump as much of the prop profits as possible into the personal account. I also feel it's important to run at least 3 prop accounts, just in case, something happens to one of them. You don't need to be "out of business" for 2-3 months while qualifying for another. The entire point of prop firms is under capitalization, so use them to fund yourself to the point you don't need them. Of course, at that point, no harm in continuing with them as it is just extra $$$ until the well runs dry.
  • #1,611
  • Jun 17, 2021 6:20pm Jun 17, 2021 6:20pm
I've gotten several emails from CTI (City Trader's Imperium) about all of their wonderful new improvements. Here's a snippet from the most recent email touting their new and improved "Funded Trader Program 2.0". Oh wow, I'm so excited!! Um, no.

"YOU ASKED, WE LISTENED"

Um, no you didn't listen. I asked if the trader's dashboard was finished yet. You know, the one you said would be finished in March.

But at least your marketing team came up with some new nonsense to try and stay relevant. If you can't provide a trader's dashboard, then you won't get my business.

Signed yours truly,

-Not impressed
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,612
  • Jun 17, 2021 6:22pm Jun 17, 2021 6:22pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly, with all of the new ones popping up and the fact that 80% will probably be gone in less than 6 months, very important to know which ones will be around long-term. More important than the fee is the time required to get to the funded stage. It's the reason I made the decision to ALWAYS run the personal account alongside the prop accounts and dump as much of the prop profits as possible into the personal account. I also feel it's important to run at least 3 prop accounts, just in case, something happens to one of them. You don't need...
Hey bud. I'm curious which MFF program you are doing?
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,613
  • Jun 17, 2021 6:43pm Jun 17, 2021 6:43pm
Quoting ladder
{quote} The 4% relative drawdown rule will deter potential traders. If they fear that some traders may trade aggressively after getting professional account, they could introduce 7%(or 6%) relative drawdown + 4% fixed drawdown. As each stage requires 10% profit, I think 7% relative drawdown is reasonable.
Besides this forum--which I certainly hope they visit if they want good, useful feedback--why not e-mail Lux your suggestions or tell their Chat Support? Or leave a comment on their YouTube channel (I've seen them directly respond on Blake's, for instance). There's also Trust Pilot...

Who knows, they might actually come to their senses--and listen!
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #1,614
  • Jun 17, 2021 7:24pm Jun 17, 2021 7:24pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Hey bud. I'm curious which MFF program you are doing?
I'm on stage 2 of the 100K evaluation.
  • #1,615
  • Jun 17, 2021 7:42pm Jun 17, 2021 7:42pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I'm on stage 2 of the 100K evaluation.
Nice. Thx for the info. I might give them a shot.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,616
  • Jun 17, 2021 8:24pm Jun 17, 2021 8:24pm
Inserted Video



Have you, guys, seen this?

Top 3 are:
1. MyForexFunds
2. FTMO
3. Lux
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #1,617
  • Jun 17, 2021 11:33pm Jun 17, 2021 11:33pm
Anyone have any experience with Privycript.com or solutionsreport.com ? They present themselves as fund recovery specialists, etc for those who have been scammed. I have asked solutionsreport.com several times, "do you charge a fee?" and they have never answered.
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  • #1,618
  • Jun 17, 2021 11:43pm Jun 17, 2021 11:43pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly, with all of the new ones popping up and the fact that 80% will probably be gone....
My thinking also, dont keep all your eggs in one basket.
  • #1,619
  • Jun 17, 2021 11:50pm Jun 17, 2021 11:50pm
Quoting MoxFulder
Anyone have any experience with Privycript.com or solutionsreport.com ? They present themselves as fund recovery specialists, etc for those who have been scammed. I have asked solutionsreport.com several times, "do you charge a fee?" and they have never answered. {image}
I am aware that fx peace army have a significant problem with people at their website who claim to be able to help anyone who has been scammed, only to again scam the person who was scammed. An unfortunate but popular behaviour apparently. The moral of the story is to make sure you are dealing with a legit company when employing such services.
  • #1,620
  • Jun 18, 2021 12:57am Jun 18, 2021 12:57am
Quoting doji
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpspQq0inzM Have you, guys, seen this? Top 3 are: 1. MyForexFunds 2. FTMO 3. Lux
Thanks for the Spoilers Doji

I hope Blake has learnt his lesson from the TradingProp debacle. No more mindless/reckless shilling.
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