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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

So I accepted a Prop Trading job in South Beach Miami 44 replies

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  • #1,461
  • Jun 8, 2021 6:28am Jun 8, 2021 6:28am
Quoting Simply-Me
{quote} Well is not that hard to do 10+%,but not every month and pressure under challenge wont help either. Psychology will kick in and here you go.Suddenly you have problem find decent set up,just because you have to.
Agreed.

Masterrmind .......
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #1,462
  • Jun 8, 2021 9:58am Jun 8, 2021 9:58am
Quoting doji
Hi, doyathink. No complaints thus far. They have 24/7 chat support. Their dashboard not only shows your trading metrics but also incorporates Trading Central analytics (with an indicator that can be downloaded onto your MT4 chart, if you want). Most of all--unlike most prop firms where trades are done in-house, so to speak-- they use a separate broker, the Malta-based Tier1FX.
good to hear, doji...

steady as she goes.
  • #1,463
  • Jun 8, 2021 2:11pm Jun 8, 2021 2:11pm
5ers is open if someone wants to sign up for the free version.....
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it
  • #1,464
  • Jun 8, 2021 5:50pm Jun 8, 2021 5:50pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Agreed. Masterrmind .......
Yes agreed!

It's probably been mentioned already but the reality of Prop trading is that in the case of say an FTMO 100k account, one is in actuality only trading a 5k account but with a 100k account leverage! Because you can't lose more then 5k on the day. So one's MM has to be based on a percentage of 5k not 100k , So taking the normal 2% risk - of $5000 is $100 which should be one's max loss per trade. Kind of puts things into perspective I suppose. You can't use the 100k to calculate your risk! And that continues to be the case for as long as one is in the game of course.

Sorry if I'm repeating what's already been stated but it's mistake I've made and probably most of us who have tried and failed
  • #1,465
  • Edited 9:06pm Jun 9, 2021 8:32pm | Edited 9:06pm
Quoting Mtinifx
{quote} Yes agreed! It's probably been mentioned already but the reality of Prop trading is that in the case of say an FTMO 100k account, one is in actuality only trading a 5k account but with a 100k account leverage! Because you can't lose more then 5k on the day. So one's MM has to be based on a percentage of 5k not 100k , So taking the normal 2% risk - of $5000 is $100 which should be one's max loss per trade. Kind of puts things into perspective I suppose. You can't use the 100k to calculate your risk! And that continues to be the case for as...
I agree we trade with 5k account.

But, remember, it is 1 day account.

Do you loose 100 $ only per trade in a day account?

I disagree.

Risk/reward in 5k day account, I would put it as 2k max Daily loss for 1k profit.

Yeah, this is how it works.

If one trade prop account like personal account, he/she likely to loose out, we all know.

Trade 5 lots, 2000 $ risk, 1k profit, how good is this?

And entry, 1min,5min and 15 min chart ?
Intraday only.
  • #1,466
  • Jun 9, 2021 8:58pm Jun 9, 2021 8:58pm
Quoting navk
{quote} I agree we trade with 5k account. But, remember, it is 1 day account. Do you loose 100 $ only per trade in a day account? I disagree. Risk/reward in 5k day account, I would put it as 2k max Daily loss for 1k profit. Yeah, this is how it works. If one trade prop account like personal account, he/she likely to loose out, we all know. But, trade, 5 lots, 2000 $ risk, 1k profit, how good is this? And entry, 1min,5min and 15 min chart ?
Simple formula...on a 100K account, initially make your R $500-1000, depending on your risk tolerance. Never lose more than 3R in a day. If you do shut the platform down, this way daily DD is not an issue. If you fall under the 100K in equity, your R needs to be adjusted to 5-10% of THE REMAINING DD. Example, if you are down to 98K, your R becomes $400(5%) - $800 (10%). In this way, you should never fail a challenge or lose an account once your live. You may not always hit the target in the challenge, but you will be doing free retakes.

Getting back to the DD, this is why I am constantly repeating myself.....the challenge/verification model, where you pay $500-$600 for 10K in DD is the ONLY way to go. The other models, where you are live immediately and they double you every 10%, the fee is always GREATER or EQUAL TO the DD allowed. That money is better served in your personal account. Not going to explain why again, just apply the math side by side and you'll figure it out.
  • #1,467
  • Jun 9, 2021 9:23pm Jun 9, 2021 9:23pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Simple formula...on a 100K account, initially make your R $500-1000, depending on your risk tolerance. Never lose more than 3R in a day. If you do shut the platform down, this way daily DD is not an issue. If you fall under the 100K in equity, your R needs to be adjusted to 5-10% of THE REMAINING DD. Example, if you are down to 98K, your R becomes $400(5%) - $800 (10%). In this way, you should never fail a challenge or lose an account once your live. You may not always hit the target in the challenge, but you will be doing free retakes....
Initial days are important as you said.

That gives cuishion and required confidence to go at it !

And another thing, i do not want to forget, after violating my earlier prop account with FTMO, I took it as a test and made upto 125k in 7 days, from a disastarous 89k ! Never violated daily loss limits in those 7 days.

Pshcology speaks.

Fear of loosing must go from the minds.
Intraday only.
  • #1,468
  • Jun 10, 2021 12:43am Jun 10, 2021 12:43am
Quoting navk
{quote} Initial days are important as you said. That gives cuishion and required confidence to go at it ! And another thing, i do not want to forget, after violating my earlier prop account with FTMO, I took it as a test and made upto 125k in 7 days, from a disastarous 89k ! Never violated daily loss limits in those 7 days. Pshcology speaks. Fear of loosing must go from the minds.

on demo everything is possible. challenge if u want, first to a billion. forget your demo/trial/dont care results
Attached Image
offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #1,469
  • Jun 10, 2021 5:00am Jun 10, 2021 5:00am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Getting back to the DD, this is why I am constantly repeating myself.....the challenge/verification model, where you pay $500-$600 for 10K in DD is the ONLY way to go. The other models, where you are live immediately and they double you every 10%, the fee is always GREATER or EQUAL TO the DD allowed. That money is better served in your personal account. Not going to explain why again, just apply the math side by side and you'll figure it out.
Inserted Video


This video shows a chart comparing the results of trading your own account vs the direct funding model (MFF's accelerated account, in this case).

Though the signup cost in the latter is almost always the same as the allowed DD (which just makes logical sense since they're not in the charity business, after all), you end up better off if you trade well because the scaling plan makes all the difference.
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #1,470
  • Jun 10, 2021 5:32am Jun 10, 2021 5:32am
Hi, PF.

Care to elaborate?

It's the exact same business model as that of the 5ers --albeit with a few tweaks--, right?
Amor Fati--F. Nietzsche
  • #1,471
  • Jun 10, 2021 5:53am Jun 10, 2021 5:53am
Quoting doji
{quote} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJjzkAa_1Ts This video shows a chart comparing the results of trading your own account vs the direct funding model (MFF's accelerated account, in this case). Though the signup cost in the latter is almost always the same as the allowed DD (which just makes logical sense since they're not in the charity business, after all), you end up better off if you trade well because the scaling plan makes all the difference.
All of these models present as a % gain of the EQUITY of both the prop firm and the personal account. That is the marketing gimmick. You need to compare the ALLOWED DD of the prop vs THE TOTAL EQUITY of the personal account. Your risk per trade must be on what you can lose. If you risk 2% of your equity in a 100K personal account, it is 2K, if you do that in a 100K prop account, if your allowed DD is 4%, you lose two trades and account is gone.
  • #1,472
  • Jun 10, 2021 5:55am Jun 10, 2021 5:55am
These are the real numbers. This with CTI but you can plug the numbers in for any similar model.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: prop scaling model.PNG Size: 78 KB
  • #1,473
  • Jun 10, 2021 5:59am Jun 10, 2021 5:59am
Did the math a couple of weeks ago. Same company challenge model vs scaling model.
Quoting pipmaster77
I've done some math for everyone to demonstrate the difference between eval and live on the MFF. Going to compare the 200K eval vs the 20K live conventional as they are approx the same cost. 949 vs 970. 1st "stage" requires 8% on eval, which pays you 2% $320 same 8% on 20K live pays you $800 2nd "stage" requires 5% pays you 4% $400 same 5% on 20K live pays you $500 you are now trading a 200K account on eval model and you are now scaled to 40K on live Going to assume 5% per month from here on just for simplicity 1st month funded 200K @ 5% @ 75% split...
  • #1,474
  • Jun 10, 2021 7:06am Jun 10, 2021 7:06am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} All of these models present as a % gain of the EQUITY of both the prop firm and the personal account. That is the marketing gimmick. You need to compare the ALLOWED DD of the prop vs THE TOTAL EQUITY of the personal account. Your risk per trade must be on what you can lose. If you risk 2% of your equity in a 100K personal account, it is 2K, if you do that in a 100K prop account, if your allowed DD is 4%, you lose two trades and account is gone.

Lol Direct Funding model firms have got their eyes on you Pip.
People have been assassinated for less.
  • #1,475
  • Jun 10, 2021 7:07am Jun 10, 2021 7:07am
Quoting pipmaster77
Did the math a couple of weeks ago. Same company challenge model vs scaling model.{quote}
Some will not and choose not to understand they will continue to dig for dirt to proof you wrong.
  • #1,476
  • Jun 10, 2021 7:15am Jun 10, 2021 7:15am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol Direct Funding model firms have got their eyes on you Pip. People have been assassinated for less.
Hey, I love MFF. About to pass stage 1. I actually believe, unless FTMO changes some things, MFF will be king. However, as I posted above, the first 3 months, DOING THE SAME THING in both the eval and live with THE SAME COMPANY will yield 25K more in eval model and after 11 months, it is almost 50K more. It's simply a far, far, far superior model for the trader.
  • #1,477
  • Jun 10, 2021 8:33am Jun 10, 2021 8:33am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Hey, I love MFF. About to pass stage 1. I actually believe, unless FTMO changes some things, MFF will be king. However, as I posted above, the first 3 months, DOING THE SAME THING in both the eval and live with THE SAME COMPANY will yield 25K more in eval model and after 11 months, it is almost 50K more. It's simply a far, far, far superior model for the trader.
Glad to know this.

Hope I will catch up with you slowly. May be next week, I will finish off phase 1.
Intraday only.
  • #1,478
  • Jun 10, 2021 11:20am Jun 10, 2021 11:20am
Quoting pipmaster77
These are the real numbers. This with CTI but you can plug the numbers in for any similar model. {image}
This is my opinion.
The 5%ers, CTI, MFF Accelerated models where you pay a little more/equal than allowed DD can work only in one specific scenario.
Traders who do know how to trade and generate consistent profits but somehow they sabotage themselves trading their own live accounts due to horrible psychology.
Trading OPM (other people's money) may be the only solution for them. Challenge models with time limit won't work for them coz their horrible psychology will result in them blowing up accounts.
So if you are such trader, model where you pay for allowed DD, can take your time without any stress due to no time limits and maybe your psychology will improve when trading OPM - is your solution.

For other traders this model looks like waste of time.
  • #1,479
  • Jun 10, 2021 7:47pm Jun 10, 2021 7:47pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Hey, I love MFF. About to pass stage 1. I actually believe, unless FTMO changes some things, MFF will be king. However, as I posted above, the first 3 months, DOING THE SAME THING in both the eval and live with THE SAME COMPANY will yield 25K more in eval model and after 11 months, it is almost 50K more. It's simply a far, far, far superior model for the trader.
Enjoy your Tickmill spread now because the MFF platform spread is terrible.
  • #1,480
  • Edited 10:42pm Jun 10, 2021 10:02pm | Edited 10:42pm
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} Enjoy your Tickmill spread now because the MFF platform spread is terrible.
lol what?

I have been trading on it for almost a month now and its pretty much tickmill or better depending on what you trade.

Edit: Yes I do have a live tickmill account.
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