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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #1,241
  • May 22, 2021 2:47pm May 22, 2021 2:47pm
Quoting endgame99
MFF had 1000 traders sign up for Evaluation Aggressive accounts. Only 9 traders moved to live accounts and 2 traders remain live today (numbers mentioned by MFF on their webinar). How about this for interesting statistics. MFF discontinued Evaluation Aggressive accounts for now due to too high failure. They made loads of money from all those failed traders but I like that they stopped the program to rework it to find a way to lower the failure rate. This way less people lose money. Wondering if FTMO would do the same. MFF could've easily kept Aggressive...
Yes, never did understand why someone would choose that model with MFF or FTMO.
  • #1,242
  • May 22, 2021 2:58pm May 22, 2021 2:58pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, but my point is if you are actually going to use the 50:1, you are done with a 10 pip move against you. That's what I mean by irrelevant, it's still all about the DD. You simply can only lose so much, so you must adjust your leverage to reflect what you can lose.
Lol but who would use the whole 1:50 on one 10 pip trade though?

MFF
with 1:50 Lev.
and 5% DD,
10 pips SL
i risk 1% of my $10,000 account on EURUSD ($100 risk)
my Position size would be 1 Lot (i'd be using only about 1:8 or 1:10 of my total lev)

A Loss = $100 (-1%, still have 4% left to lose)
or
A 2R Win = $200. (+2% added, i now have 7% of DD to play with)

5ers
With 1:6 Lev
and 4% DD
10 pips SL
i can not risk up to 1% like i did with MFF, so i have to risk only 0.40%. My Position size would be 0.40.
(The most i would totally be able to risk on this same trade on my $10,000 account with a 10 SL is about 0.40%. (Using my total 1:6 leverage allowance)

A Loss = $40 (-0.4%, still have 3.6% left to lose)
or
A 2r win = $80 (+0.8% added, i now have 4.8% of DD to play with)

Which gives you more opportunity to grow and scale up faster?

What exactly am i doing with a $10,000 funded account if i can't even risk up to 0.50% ($50) on a trade right from the start?
I mean, you've given me only 4% worth of DD to play with, while still limit/stop me from taking a position that risks only 1% from the 4%?


Not saying these direct funding programs are great..
I'm not even comparing them with Eval accounts.. IMO there's absolutely no comparison there...
I'm only responding to the Comparison between 5ers direct fundng and MFF's direct funding.
and one obviously gives you more room to make more money if you're having a good run.
  • #1,243
  • May 22, 2021 3:08pm May 22, 2021 3:08pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol but who would use the whole 1:50 on one 10 pip trade though? MFF with 1:50 Lev. and 5% DD, 10 pips SL i risk 1% of my $10,000 account on EURUSD ($100 risk) my Position size would be 1 Lot (i'd be using only about 1:8 or 1:10 of my total lev) A Loss = $100 (-1%, still have 4% left to lose) or A 2R Win = $200. (+2% added, i now have 7% of DD to play with) 5ers With 1:6 Lev and 4% DD 10 pips SL i can not risk up to 1% like i did with MFF, so i have to risk only 0.40%. My Position size would be 0.40. (The most i would totally be able to...
Yes, exactly my point, you are not going to use the 1:50 and if you are using 1:8 or 1:9 with a 5% DD, you are probably not going to open another trade until you have that one locked at BE. That's where the higher leverage would definitely be an advantage, the ability to open additional trades, once you've locked BE+ on others.
No leverage (1:1) allows a 10,000 pip loss, 2:1 allows 5,000, 10:1 allows 1,000, etc. Just basic numbers with USD as the base, obviously cross pairs and non USD base are different, just using this for the sake of illustration. Those are the numbers if you have 100% DD allowed, with 5%, they all need to be cut by 20. So now 10:1 only allows a 50 pip loss and you've violated 5% DD rule. It just doesn't give much room regardless of the leverage BEING OFFERED.
  • #1,244
  • May 22, 2021 3:35pm May 22, 2021 3:35pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, exactly my point, you are not going to use the 1:50 and if you are using 1:8 or 1:9 with a 5% DD, you are probably not going to open another trade until you have that one locked at BE. That's where the higher leverage would definitely be an advantage, the ability to open additional trades, once you've locked BE+ on others. No leverage (1:1) allows a 10,000 pip loss, 2:1 allows 5,000, 10:1 allows 1,000, etc. Just basic numbers with USD as the base, obviously cross pairs and non USD base are different, just using this for the sake of...
Ahhh Pip you're not seeing what I'm trying to say.

With MFF, If you risk 1% with a 1 lot Position size... You have used only 1:10 of your given 1:50.
You can still open 2 more 1 lot trades, even without moving SL to B.E.
If you lost all 3 trades, you would still have 2% left of your DD.

My point here is that YOU CAN!!. . Because of the higher leverage, you can afford to take on more risk for more reward.

With 5ers, YOU CAN'T!! ...
forget about the max DD for a minute... It does not matter in this example because the losses in this example on both accounts don't put you at the risk of breaching the limit.
All I'm talking about here is earning potential... Look at it from that POV... Forget about the DD.
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  • #1,245
  • May 22, 2021 4:05pm May 22, 2021 4:05pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Ahhh Pip you're not seeing what I'm trying to say. With MFF, If you risk 1% with a 1 lot Position size... You have used only 1:10 of your given 1:50. You can still open 2 more 1 lot trades, even without moving SL to B.E. If you lost all 3 trades, you would still have 2% left of your DD. My point here is that YOU CAN!!. . Because of the higher leverage, you can afford to take on more risk for more reward. With 5ers, YOU CAN'T!! ... forget about the max DD for a minute... It does not matter in this example because the losses in this example...
OK, don't shoot!!! lol. I get the earning potential aspect. My only point is regardless of the leverage offered, you can still only lose $500 on that 10K account.
  • #1,246
  • May 22, 2021 4:27pm May 22, 2021 4:27pm
Quoting pipmaster77
I've done some math for everyone to demonstrate the difference between eval and live on the MFF. Going to compare the 200K eval vs the 20K live conventional as they are approx the same cost. 949 vs 970. 1st "stage" requires 8% on eval, which pays you 2% $320 same 8% on 20K live pays you $800 2nd "stage" requires 5% pays you 4% $400 same 5% on 20K live pays you $500 you are now trading a 200K account on eval model and you are now scaled to 40K on live Going to assume 5% per month from here on just for simplicity 1st month funded 200K @ 5% @ 75% split...
So, just learned, moving forward, no 2% or 4% on first 2 stages and 100% refund not 112%, so numbers need to be reduced by $833 on eval model [320+400+113(the excess above 100% refund)]
  • #1,247
  • May 22, 2021 4:59pm May 22, 2021 4:59pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, just learned, moving forward, no 2% or 4% on first 2 stages and 100% refund not 112%, so numbers need to be reduced by $833 on eval model [320+400+113(the excess above 100% refund)]
Wait what do you mean? They eliminated the bonus payments on the Challenge and Verification? And extra 2% on fee refund?
  • #1,248
  • May 22, 2021 6:33pm May 22, 2021 6:33pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} i agree, Tradingprop offers the best Direct funding plan so far, but that's the same reason it feels shady.(btw i tried using google earth to find this boat in his backyard but nothing turned up). MFF is better than the rest, even though not by a huge margin, but it's obvious enough to me. {quote} Leverage is very Relevant man, In fact, if all the firms including FTMO were forced by regulation to start offering only 4% max DD, what would be the Tie breaker for you when choosing who to go with? Mine would definitely be Leverage. Yes, you're...

Seems like he must have sold it. When google earthed the address on the site before there was a boat in the backyard that clearly was out of order.
  • #1,249
  • May 22, 2021 6:33pm May 22, 2021 6:33pm
Quoting Koop
{quote} Wait what do you mean? They eliminated the bonus payments on the Challenge and Verification? And extra 2% on fee refund?
Yes.
My understanding from re-watching the interviews, it was a promotion and was said that it was going to be removed eventually.
  • #1,250
  • May 22, 2021 6:41pm May 22, 2021 6:41pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Seems like he must have sold it. When google earthed the address on the site before there was a boat in the backyard that clearly was out of order.
He must've sold it to fund all of the traders coming on board.
  • #1,251
  • May 22, 2021 7:10pm May 22, 2021 7:10pm
Quoting Takisd
his program ROCKS but i know its a scam because no one is gonna let me lose that much money without even knowing me.
exactly! an inconvenient truth readily ignored when excited about getting funding
  • #1,252
  • May 22, 2021 7:26pm May 22, 2021 7:26pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} FWIW the 5ers acct seem to be real, feel to be real, acts as real (use the mt5). bcos a lot tighter rules, assume that discourage most gambling attempts, the period is a longer min days trading period too. since the leverage limits very large lot type all or nothing trading, and every position have to have a SL attached, those probably also serve toward screening out the traders more serious about responsible money handling. plus for the initial stage (lvl1) which generally equals the challenge+verification sort of, the firm is fully covered...
ok, valid points, there is still the legal hurdle, perhaps they have a work-around
  • #1,253
  • May 22, 2021 7:36pm May 22, 2021 7:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
these models flat out suck for the trader.
ignoring the increased profit when funding your own account option for a moment (because not everyone has access to the leverages required), in your view are the restrictions in these models (little DD and buying power) not workable because of your trading style and personality, or because the restrictions by design will ensure failure for most traders regardless of trading style and personality?
  • #1,254
  • Edited 8:42pm May 22, 2021 8:19pm | Edited 8:42pm
Currently, MFF accepts only credit card payment towards registration fees.
Intraday only.
  • #1,255
  • May 23, 2021 12:56am May 23, 2021 12:56am
Quoting navk
Currently, MFF accepts only credit card payment towards registration fees.
I was going to try the Rapid account but now it's too expensive
  • #1,256
  • May 23, 2021 2:27am May 23, 2021 2:27am
Quoting Bizziebee
{quote} I was going to try the Rapid account but now it's too expensive
evaluation account is worth.

Very simlar to ftmo but better in terms of conditions.
Intraday only.
  • #1,257
  • May 23, 2021 10:36am May 23, 2021 10:36am
Quoting navk
Currently, MFF accepts only credit card payment towards registration fees.
and crypto
  • #1,258
  • May 23, 2021 1:38pm May 23, 2021 1:38pm
Looks like MYff need money!
  • #1,259
  • May 23, 2021 1:39pm May 23, 2021 1:39pm
So now it seems that we can get a $50K account on MFF for the same initial fee of a $25K FTMO account (aprox.250€ if converted to EUR), things are starting to get interesting.
  • #1,260
  • May 23, 2021 6:56pm May 23, 2021 6:56pm
Some of these "Prop" firms calculate their DD allowance differently. Some calculate DD on running equity, some on closed trades which means on balance. Can make a massive difference to your chances of success.
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