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  • #381
  • Dec 21, 2020 5:04am Dec 21, 2020 5:04am
Hi DonPato
Many thanks for starting this thread and your huge efforts to educate others. I have been a student of trading the markets on and off for many years with a little success and have recently started studying order flow in much greater detail. Your observations and those of other knowledgeable traders in this thread are very much appreciated. I hope to be able to contribute soon

Thanks again!
  • #382
  • Dec 21, 2020 11:19pm Dec 21, 2020 11:19pm
Quoting Pentire
Hi DonPato Many thanks for starting this thread and your huge efforts to educate others. I have been a student of trading the markets on and off for many years with a little success and have recently started studying order flow in much greater detail. Your observations and those of other knowledgeable traders in this thread are very much appreciated. I hope to be able to contribute soon Thanks again!
I look forward to hearing your thoughts
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  • #383
  • Dec 22, 2020 1:35am Dec 22, 2020 1:35am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I look forward to hearing your thoughts
Dear DONPATO ,
Have you come across any " Depth of Market indicator for mt4 " & have you tried it and does it work ???

Thank You
  • #384
  • Dec 22, 2020 9:52am Dec 22, 2020 9:52am
Quoting HumbleLearne
{quote} Dear DONPATO , Have you come across any " Depth of Market indicator for mt4 " & have you tried it and does it work ??? Thank You
Please don't take this the wrong way..but to answer your questions. Yes there are some DOM indicators that might work but I seriously suggest you stay away (as far away as you can) from anything having to do with MT4. If you use this platform YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY. please find another platform... don't let the fact that you have so many "options" with MT4 fool you this platform is specifically designed to take your money. I have personally seen the back end (the dealer's side) and have sworn to tell anyone who will listen to stop using it. To answer your last two questions...no I have not tried any order flow indicators for MT4 and so I don't know if they work. Better yet switch to something more reliable and transparent. cTrader comes to mind or ninja trader... anything else.
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  • #385
  • Dec 22, 2020 9:59am Dec 22, 2020 9:59am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Please don't take this the wrong way..but to answer your questions. Yes there are some DOM indicators that might work but I seriously suggest you stay away (as far away as you can) from anything having to do with MT4. If you use this platform YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY. please find another platform... don't let the fact that you have so many "options" with MT4 fool you this platform is specifically designed to take your money. I have personally seen the back end (the dealer's side) and have sworn to tell anyone who will listen to stop using...

Mr DonPato ,
Thanks A Ton for your Guidance & Prompt Help I Pray from the bottom of my heart that You & Family always be blessed & Be Happy , Healthy , Wealthy & Prosprous and Grow by Leaps & Bounds in any venture you undertake Lots of Respect & Blessings

  • #386
  • Dec 22, 2020 11:35am Dec 22, 2020 11:35am
Quoting HumbleLearne
{quote} Mr DonPato , Thanks A Ton for your Guidance & Prompt Help I Pray from the bottom of my heart that You & Family always be blessed & Be Happy , Healthy , Wealthy & Prosprous and Grow by Leaps & Bounds in any venture you undertake Lots of Respect & Blessings
You too...best of luck
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  • #387
  • Dec 25, 2020 5:24am Dec 25, 2020 5:24am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Please don't take this the wrong way..but to answer your questions. Yes there are some DOM indicators that might work but I seriously suggest you stay away (as far away as you can) from anything having to do with MT4. If you use this platform YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY. please find another platform... don't let the fact that you have so many "options" with MT4 fool you this platform is specifically designed to take your money. I have personally seen the back end (the dealer's side) and have sworn to tell anyone who will listen to stop using...
Could you be a bit more specific please. I love Mt4 but will change if there is a really good reason.
  • #388
  • Dec 26, 2020 1:35pm Dec 26, 2020 1:35pm
Quoting Spikehunter
{quote} Could you be a bit more specific please. I love Mt4 but will change if there is a really good reason.
The best thing to do is analysis the charts on MT4 if you are used to it and just enter & exit on any of the above mentioned cTrader comes to mind or ninja trader i have already started to look into it all big thanks to Honorable & Respectable Mr @donapato
  • #389
  • Dec 26, 2020 10:28pm Dec 26, 2020 10:28pm
Quoting Spikehunter
{quote} Could you be a bit more specific please. I love Mt4 but will change if there is a really good reason.
I'd prefer that this discussion not devolve into which platform is better or what indicators are more useful. I have satisfied my own queries with research and personal investigation and I encourage you to do the same. I will never again use any Metatrader product. Those are my reasons and I don't expect you to accept them. Investigate it for yourself as a true entrepreneur would do for any business tool. The question is do I know any MT4 indicators and I don't and even if I did I wouldn't have any confidence in them...as a general rule I don't have much confidence in any indicators. The entire point of this thread is learning to read and understand order flow...NOT discuss the inevitably personal decision of platforms and work flow.
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  • #391
  • Jan 30, 2021 3:26pm Jan 30, 2021 3:26pm
Hi all,
I've been learning to trade for a couple of years on demo and have just discovered the world of order flow (yay!) and found this great thread :-)
It seems obvious to me that order flow analysis is a good way to find edge in the markets.
I know the last message on this thread wants to steer us away from discussing everyone's platform preference which I understand, however I would like a little guidance from people who are already using order flow software.
I trade mainly Forex (28 pairs) and would also like to look more at oil, gold, other common commodities and some of the common indices.
I currently take signals from the daily chart and have a couple of strategies with positive results, but I'd like to use order flow to validate the trades first and try and improve my win rate and hold trades longer.
I want to start using Sierra chart as it seems to have everything I need, but I'm a bit unclear about the Forex volume data being decentralized etc., is this an issue I need to worry about or is it accurate enough to use?
I don't need to place trades through Sierra chart, I will probably keep using ctrader for that, I just want to analyse order flow using footprint/numbers bars and volume profile.
I'd be grateful if anyone can confirm that Sierra chart will fulfill my needs or perhaps there's other software which would suit me better?
Then I can get going and join in the discussion ;-)
Thanks!
  • #392
  • May 18, 2021 11:03am May 18, 2021 11:03am
First of all I would like to put out my appreciation DonPato for your commitment and in-depth anaylsis of the market in terms of order flow/volume and its effect in price.I have built free knowledge from your prior threads Hey...what about volume? to this and the information has revolutionized my thinking towards the market.
Now to my point...I have set up delta volume profile chart on cTrader platform currently trading GBPUSD.I have circled three order blocks with down red arrows on each as attached.I will refer to the first order block as (1) being on the left as we progress on the time scale.
1.The candle shows net buying delta with a majority of the buying occuring between 1/2 to 2/3 of the candle.At the very top of the profile we can see some selling occuring which simply put may mean some of those buyers who went long early are simply taking profits from their trades and form an absorption (correct me if I am wrong).So my first question comes,wouldn't we refer this to as reverse order flow occuring?
2.Price continues to dominate on the long side after breaking out from the balanced state.The delta on the profile shows net buying and when you look to the left at this price point,majority of buying is occuring right about the level where selling started taking place otherwise forming a "resistance" but at this point we don't see absorption but only exhaustion in price from the tick volume of the histogram (correct me if I am wrong).
3.Price continues rising on very little volume but builds up right up at the end.Clear indication there is an increase in buying delta but there is no significant further increase in price.If i may say the long orders are being absorbed.However there is some net selling delta(magenta) which may mean late buyers taking profit.Looking to left price is now stalling around the area price previously experienced vast selling.Considering short position currently.
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  • #393
  • May 19, 2021 9:25am May 19, 2021 9:25am
Quoting bathingape
First of all I would like to put out my appreciation DonPato for your commitment and in-depth anaylsis of the market in terms of order flow/volume and its effect in price.I have built free knowledge from your prior threads ..
Thank you for your kind words. I came across your post yesterday while in the airport. I wanted you to know that I will answer you post in a more meaningful way in a couple of days. I am engaged in personal matters that have me away from my office. I will return shortly and give you a better response...talk soon.
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  • #394
  • May 19, 2021 10:53am May 19, 2021 10:53am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Thank you for your kind words. I came across your post yesterday while in the airport. I wanted you to know that I will answer you post in a more meaningful way in a couple of days. I am engaged in personal matters that have me away from my office. I will return shortly and give you a better response...talk soon.
Thank you for your response.I hope all is well on your end.I will be waiting for your response!
All the best!
  • #395
  • May 20, 2021 3:34am May 20, 2021 3:34am
Quoting bathingape
{quote} Thank you for your response.I hope all is well on your end.I will be waiting for your response! All the best!
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Before i get your response, I would like to add on this chart where I executed the trade beign discussed above.My entry was based off what i mentioned and exited near the black horizontal line which I marked as an area where there was the highest volume of buy pressure recorded (buy POC).
I am trying to improve my analysis and build methodology and reason behind trades executed.If you may add on this as well I will truly be grateful.Thanks!
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  • #396
  • May 21, 2021 1:57pm May 21, 2021 1:57pm
Quoting bathingape
First of all I would like to put out my appreciation DonPato for your commitment and in-depth anaylsis of the market in terms of order flow/volume and its effect in price.I have built free knowledge from your prior threads Hey...what about volume? to this and the information has revolutionized my thinking towards the market...
First of all I want to thank you again for your kind words and your patience with my response as I have been involved in many issues of a personal nature that have occupied my time for many months. Thus I have not been as active on this forum as I could be...and (due to just down right nasty behavior) I have been very disappointed in the responses of some individuals, leading me to question the purpose of doing this...that being said I have decided to divide my response to your question into three posts, so please, bear with me.

Preamble:
I have said this before and feel I must again emphasize that there is no "right or wrong" way to evaluate the market. Everyone relates to and "see" the market a little differently and can legitimately form logical opinions about future price movements that are completely opposed to one another. Indeed it is this opposition that creates the market to begin with. So for me to come in a day (or even a few minutes) AFTER you post a chart and tell you that your opinion is "correct" or "incorrect" is useless, because I would have the benefit of retrospect. I say this because I sense from your questions you are asking me to "check your work" or evaluate your conclusions. And again, with the advantage of retrospect it is easy for me to say what you "should have" done. This is not helpful and you can clearly look back and see what happened.

In my opinion, if is far more valuable for you to learn to "see" what is going on in real time, and evaluate THAT in the moment of "right now". What happens after this is the truth of the matter. None of us can predict the future and there is a big reason why they call this work "speculation". So, let us then review what we believe ought to happen when certain conditions exist:

  1. Net buying: if delta volume at a particular level (price point) is majority buying...price OUGHT to rise. This is because it gradually uses up all the passive selling and continued delta buying will cause the price to rise where the next passive selling level exists....if this does NOT happen, something is wrong and price MAY change direction.
  2. Net selling: The same is true of selling at a particular level. If the majority of transactions are selling, price OUGHT to fall...if it does not, something is amiss.

These are the "truths" of the market and the very basis by which it functions. So with this in mind, let us now look at the questions from your first post.

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  • #397
  • May 21, 2021 2:19pm May 21, 2021 2:19pm
Quoting bathingape
... (1) being on the left as we progress on the time scale. 1.The candle shows net buying delta with a majority of the buying occuring between 1/2 to 2/3 of the candle.At the very top of the profile we can see some selling occuring which simply put may mean some of those buyers who went long early are simply taking profits from their trades and form an absorption (correct me if I am wrong).So my first question comes,wouldn't we refer this to as reverse order flow occuring? ...
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The short answer to your question is "yes". This is reverse order flow. I would see this as day traders taking profit on longs ahead of the close of the day. It is very common and nothing that I would see as unusual or "wrong". Keep in mind the market is made up of many different participants each with different objectives and time frames. Thus I see this as a "normal" progress of price along with order flow. Buying dominated the entire day, AND, as a result, prices rose. Further, at the end of the day, selling came in and prices fell slightly, which I would expect OUGHT to happen. Normal day, normal order flow, normal price response.

At the close of this candle I would expect the price to continue rising IF the dominant buying order flow also continued. And as you noted in the next day's order flow this was indeed what happened. Buying continued, price rose, hitting the "resistance" area, and creating another flood of buying pushing prices higher.

Quoting bathingape
...3.Price continues rising on very little volume but builds up right up at the end.Clear indication there is an increase in buying delta but there is no significant further increase in price.If i may say the long orders are being absorbed.However there is some net selling delta(magenta) which may mean late buyers taking profit.Looking to left price is now stalling around the area price previously experienced vast selling...
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It seems to me your assessment on the order flow is correct. Although prices fell it was on very low volume simply indicating a lack of buying liquidity at the end of the day, and what few seller there were, affected price buy using up the small liquidity. Note how this selling did NOT change the overall buying profile. I would expect price to come back to this area and retest it...and if it held in the presence of delta buying OR if major selling ensued, (again effecting price), then I would be interest in a sell from this level...
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  • #398
  • May 21, 2021 2:33pm May 21, 2021 2:33pm
Quoting bathingape
{quote} ... i mentioned and exited near the black horizontal line which I marked as an area where there was the highest volume of buy pressure recorded (buy POC)...
Attached Image

First of all, congratulations on your successful short. If your goal was a quick short term "scalp" that trade was very well done. I have made some notations to your chart commenting on how I viewed the order flow and resulting price action. You correctly saw the buying fade near the high of the previous day, and shorted (I assume) just as the buying stops were starting to be hit, causing a cascade of sell orders to hit the market resulting in falling prices...UNTIL...the sellers ceased to enter shorts and "pooped out". as you can clearly see from your chart buying resume from the same level where (two days previous) the selling was stopped out (the low liquidity area) from the previous move higher.

All in all I think you have successfully navigated the reading of order flow tools, and produced a successful trade which gained profit very quickly. Over the course of one day you grossed what looks like, close to 75 (or so) pips. Well done!!
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  • #399
  • May 23, 2021 4:18am May 23, 2021 4:18am
Loving the chat here about market flow etc, have opened a CTrade account to gain further experience away from MT4, would love some help towards where I would find an indicator like I see on 392.
Blessings to you all
  • #400
  • May 23, 2021 5:41am May 23, 2021 5:41am
Hi DonPato, how would you interpret this "daily candle"?

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