Billionaire Ray Dalio says world’s largest hedge fund ‘didn’t know how to navigate’ coronavirus stock-market selloff | Crypto Craft

  • Billionaire Ray Dalio says world’s largest hedge fund ‘didn’t know how to navigate’ coronavirus stock-market selloff

    From marketwatch.com

    Ray Dalio’s deft navigation of the financial crisis 12 years ago helped to burnish his image—and bankroll—as a legendary investor. However, the current situation with COVID-19 that has infected thousands of people across more than 100 countries, snuffing out a record-setting bull-market run in U.S. stocks in the process, has befuddled the billionaire investor who co-founded Bridgewater Associates about 45 years ago, he told the Financial Times (paywall), in a recent interview. “We’re disappointed because we should have made money rather than lost money in this move the way we did in 2008,” he told the ... (full story)

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plukin
Mar 16, 2020 1:11am
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Nobody is behind such market crashes. They tried to find somebody responsible for those big crashes in the past, but didn't find anybody. (Unless it it's some illiquid market) Market crashes because buying is exhausted & selling comes. There's time to buy & there's time to sell. And it's better to buy earlier then others & also sell earlier then others. Cause then others might join & would as a result move the price further.. In this case lower. And then there are forced liguidations when there's crowded trade & traders rushes to exits in panic.

And I wouldn't say it's the banks either..do you know how difficult it is to go against the market???
Can anyone be big enough to turn the markets? I'd say no way..
Couple people tried that in the past, thinking they are big enough..usually they got their ass handed as market proved them wrong. Point is, there's time to buy & time to sell. Be wrong enough..& doesn't matter your size, you'll get your ass handed. Be right enough & it can be anybody with the smallest position who just tips the tide. But blaming those I find foolish, nothing stays in a trend forever, there are & will be turns, so better be ready for them, period.

The right trader tends to feel SO WRONG. So, I'd say banks/big traders MIGHT try to turn the market (both up & down) ..but I'd also say they'd be like any other trader who ever tried catching the top/bottom..going against the market for "so long", getting stopped out over & over & over..only to throw in a towel.. & then missing the big one Or catching the big one..but being so used to market turning back against & into loss..that one quits the trade way too early catching only a little! Anyone? )

It pays of having the trader's gut instinct & "smell/feel" it coming & be quicker then others.

And the way mr. Dalio mentioned they managed the trades..reminds me of pretty much retail/unexperienced traders.. Trying to wait it out.. Ups. Interestingly enough I was listening to his interview couple weeks/months ago & he mentioned they have a diversification formula of "uncorelated" markets that helps them limit losses & increase profits 5x ..& I was thinking myself.. "that can't work, can it? Must be flaw somewhere as markets are interconnected, good luck with finding something that's uncorelated forever. Not to mention that there are times when the best position is no position as funds & traders liquidate theirs in a hurry..".

Not sure if this is the reason or it was something else..but obviously they were wrong enough.
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plukin
Mar 16, 2020 6:34am
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Quoting smikester
{quote} I think you'll find it is a cumulative effect. If I have a portfolio which is over leveraged or over greedy in a certain sector, I sell off that part. This is accelerated when a threat is seen. That's all.
Agree, I just feel like people asking "who did that?" are looking for somebody to blame aka some "evil" that decided "ok, today I gonna crash it cause I got bunch of shorts/puts & I am gonna make a killing!". And that's what I call bs.
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OutThere
Mar 15, 2020 8:25pm
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"We’re disappointed because we should have made money rather than lost money"

Isn't that a universal after the affect statement we all make after blowing up? Duh
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plukin
Mar 16, 2020 1:16am
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Quoting Devas1
If most recover why are we not isolating the elderly and vulnerable rather than shutting down a whole freakn country for the virus
Exactly, was wondering it for some time! All that blaming "if you are healthy, just don't be selfish, you'll infect others" etc..but they aren't victims, should be up to them to isolate & protect themselves & the rest should let be left free.. Up to anyone whether they sees it as a risk or not really..
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mrlfx
Mar 15, 2020 9:09pm
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Ray Dalio bought put options worth around $1.5 billions that expired probably in March 2020. I m sure he will be getting huge gains from that put options unlike most of the people in wall street who are bleeding money now, some of whom could become bankrupted. You will hear in the next 1-2 weeks who go kaput. Already two ETF got bankrupted in the recent oil 30% crash!
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TudorIoan
Mar 16, 2020 7:07am
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Quoting Not-KPMG
My stupid take {image}
People don't care if bitcoin is jesus christ superstar at the second coming !
Traders don't care if btc is the "perfect money" !

You crypto obsessed sick imbeciles can struggle, worry, cry, punch, hate, troll, fuss and piss... you will never understand that market is always right ! Only imbeciles fight against market !
Market is always right !
Market has spoken, bitcoin cannot hold value if crisis ! Period.

You call yourself smart ???

It's time for the most hard ass ambitious crypto imbeciles to hold the bag.
They'll never surender ...hold the bag of shit, losers !
Everybody dump the bitcoin shit in your bag now, McAfee-Nox-KPMGumbo losers !
They say HODL.
Oooh, they are now the SIHT-BAG-HODLERS !...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zhart_X.jpg Size: 3 KB
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smikester
Mar 16, 2020 6:20am
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Quoting plukin
Nobody is behind such market crashes. They tried to find somebody responsible for those big crashes in the past, but didn't find anybody..
I think you'll find it is a cumulative effect. If I have a portfolio which is over leveraged or over greedy in a certain sector, I sell off that part. This is accelerated when a threat is seen. That's all.
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raklian
Mar 15, 2020 8:28pm
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Hedge funds are just glorified traders. Even the best traders are often wrong. What makes them among the best is they are patient enough to score a huge winning trade that overwhelms the string of losses they had to suffer.
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AJR
Mar 16, 2020 4:40am
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Quoting vikinsa
Most hedge funds rely of hedging strategies across multiple asset classes and few known so called safe havens such as USDJPY, commodities and precious metals and now possibly crypto as well. However the biggest reason why they lost money is because these hedging strategies are also failing. For example gold was supposed to move up in the time of crisis but it has been going down and so is bitcoin. Gold is not looking very good at the moment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqgwCuzKjgU
Off course.

Liquidation to comply with collateral.
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Blessed-man
Mar 16, 2020 5:02am
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Quoting vikinsa
Most hedge funds rely of hedging strategies across multiple asset classes and few known so called safe havens such as USDJPY, commodities and precious metals and now possibly crypto as well. However the biggest reason why they lost money is because these hedging strategies are also failing. For example gold was supposed to move up in the time of crisis but it has been going down and so is bitcoin. Gold is not looking very good at the moment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqgwCuzKjgU
When the world economy is fragile, even Gold will not go up, remember it has been popped up from $1250 area and the buyers want to actualize the capital accretion that is reflecting in their portfolio.

In the last major sell-off that saw AUD around 0.5 area, even gold touched sub $1k

In reality, if you are one of the buyers that bought at $1,285 or thereabouts, what will be your decision at $1,685 hoping for $2,000 or wait for a big dip
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OnlineAddict
Mar 15, 2020 8:05pm
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Quoting 786FX
Then who knew ? Who are behind such sell off and market crashes.
You think hedge funds? Thats just retail money managed by idiots. Your answer is banks.
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Devas1
Mar 16, 2020 1:54am
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Quoting plukin
{quote} Exactly, was wondering it for some time! All that blaming "if you are healthy, just don't be selfish, you'll infect others" etc..but they aren't victims, should be up to them to isolate & protect themselves & the rest should let be left free.. Up to anyone whether they sees it as a risk or not really..
Wait till a lot people start to get frustrated and actually revolt. Now they want 8 week shut down. How about admit the economy is garbage and you are using the flu as a culprit for blame.
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TudorIoan
Mar 16, 2020 1:26am
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"Trading may have princes, but nobody stays a king. The people you meet on the way up, you will meet again on the way down."
Bridgewater lost the bet this time. That's it.

Nobody runs anything but his own money.
But market can be a doll or a bitch for you, but she's always fkn "right"...and butthurts blame conspiracy as usual
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barkie
Mar 16, 2020 2:15am
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Quoting Devas1
{quote} Wait till a lot people start to get frustrated and actually revolt. Now they want 8 week shut down. How about admit the economy is garbage and you are using the flu as a culprit for blame.
Garbage? 3 months ago:

Quoting Devas1
No it is called fundamentals. We are rate positive and fed will be forced to increase one rate hike in 2020
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Devas1
Mar 16, 2020 1:05am
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If most recover why are we not isolating the elderly and vulnerable rather than shutting down a whole freakn country for the virus
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smikester
Mar 16, 2020 9:03am
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Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} People don't care if bitcoin ..
Don't lower yourself...
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Modris
Mar 16, 2020 1:00am
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Quoting 786FX
Then who knew ? Who are behind such sell off and market crashes.
You wonder who is selling?
Stocks are pumped up by buybacks. Here is one of sellers:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jeff-bezos-has-now-sold-nearly-35-billion-in-amazon-stock-over-the-past-week-2020-02-06
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786FX
Mar 15, 2020 7:56pm
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Then who knew ?

Who are behind such sell off and market crashes.
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Devas1
Mar 16, 2020 2:31am
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Quoting barkie
{quote} Garbage? 3 months ago: {quote}
Because what i said is logic and they will raise rates because all of this binge spending will create hyperinflation if you even know what that means
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vikinsa
Mar 16, 2020 2:56am
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Most hedge funds rely of hedging strategies across multiple asset classes and few known so called safe havens such as USDJPY, commodities and precious metals and now possibly crypto as well. However the biggest reason why they lost money is because these hedging strategies are also failing. For example gold was supposed to move up in the time of crisis but it has been going down and so is bitcoin. Gold is not looking very good at the moment.

Inserted Video
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Not-KPMG
Mar 15, 2020 11:44pm
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Quoting OnlineAddict
.... Thats just retail money managed by idiots. Your answer is banks.
Soooo
Managed by id.ots

Ohhhh
When 1.45
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Not-KPMG
Mar 16, 2020 4:41am
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My take
Attached Image
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Trader#D9D1
Mar 15, 2020 8:17pm
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You bullshitted the people many years lolol
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Trader#6BD9
Mar 16, 2020 9:03am
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Crypto is no good, see what happens to gold when pop virus is on way out
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