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The future of Bitcoin/a place for discussion

  • #21
  • Feb 25, 2020 4:27am Feb 25, 2020 4:27am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Even if some temporary corrections, stocks are safer investment than bitcoin because they represent something meaningful, The Economy. Bitcoin it's just a computer code that some people gossip it means "something" ...like the hate against the current banking system, well, that's something
The longer term trend in stock market is up up up. As you say, it represent something meaningful, dependent upon growing demand for goods reflective of population growth and wealth.

I think if something has value, it has value. It could be bitcoin, oil poured down a drain, or my grandmothers favourite painting. These things experience fluctuations with trend of the day, fancy marketing, convincing people they must have something because of trends and other personal preferences.

But stock market is real, a mix of trendy items and everyday things.

Bitcoin is too volatile and not enough capitalisation. Imagine your pay check only being able to buy half as much as it did the last month, because bitcoin fell like a rock which it has done at times.

Could also rise just as sharply, but if it goes up fast, it can down just as fast. Too many headaches and doubt to be thought of as a serious currency to be paid in for your work on a large and regular scale.
  • #22
  • Feb 25, 2020 8:53pm Feb 25, 2020 8:53pm
BTCUSD keeps falling like bricks off a building, even while USD falls.
Poor bitcoin
  • #23
  • Edited 1:15am Feb 26, 2020 1:03am | Edited 1:15am
Quoting photoshop
BTCUSD keeps falling like bricks off a building, even while USD falls. Poor bitcoin
Stocks falls? ...you maybe should widen your TF
That's what they do ...periodically
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  • #24
  • Feb 26, 2020 1:55am Feb 26, 2020 1:55am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Stocks falls? ...you maybe should widen your TF That's what they do ...periodically {image}
I said BTCUSD falls not stocks.
  • #25
  • Feb 26, 2020 2:03am Feb 26, 2020 2:03am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Stocks falls? ...you maybe should widen your TF That's what they do ...periodically {image}
I trade high time frames, I understand this.
Not-kpmg was gabbling on, he was saying stocks are so red, big fall.
I talked about how the fall in bitcoin this week is bigger in % than the stocks fall.
  • #26
  • Feb 26, 2020 2:36am Feb 26, 2020 2:36am
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  • #27
  • Feb 26, 2020 2:38am Feb 26, 2020 2:38am
Quoting photoshop
{quote} I said BTCUSD falls not stocks.
Sorry, oh you did said bitcoin
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  • #28
  • Feb 26, 2020 2:44am Feb 26, 2020 2:44am
Now I thought I heard you saying GOLD !
Bitcoin is kind of sluggish next to the real world events. Only the wahles are pumping and dumping shit-coin ! I know you know that
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  • #29
  • Edited 7:13am Feb 26, 2020 6:49am | Edited 7:13am
In what way do you think is better to have tokenized money ?
I mean if we rule out the limited supply.
And also mind that they can't provide decentralization because of the ogre money power of the whales who controls everything (those guys makes up to 80% of the transaction checking system, or the hash rate, of bitcoin.)
And even if the blockchain is rock solid, they can't provide security because the vulnerability of the terminals like wallets.
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  • #30
  • Feb 26, 2020 7:17am Feb 26, 2020 7:17am
You want to talk the future of bitcoin?
Good, we should cover on this:
1 - scalability (transactions speed),
2 - sustainablility (total energy involved in mining and transactions if high rate global adoption),
3 - transparency (owner's identity hidden),
4 - safety (dirty and vulnerable interface, ...wallets-exchanges, miners),
5 - economic hazard (deflationist effect, a break for the free economy)
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  • #31
  • Feb 27, 2020 1:33pm Feb 27, 2020 1:33pm
Quoting photoshop
Good education about bitcoin here. Some of the things I have talked about before. https://www.moneycrashers.com/bitcoi...rks-pros-cons/ We can sleep or wake up. I will come back later or another day to make comments, to much to do right now.
People can read this news themselves, not enough hours in a day to talk about this bit by bit.

Terror states talking of wanting to invest in cryptos like bitcoin to avoid sanctions put on them.

Imaging USA letting this happen, or UK, UN?

Russian authorities also have money frozen in accounts.

When gang leader crypto becomes a real threat, sovereign crypto issuers will outlaw them, (meaning their servants in Capitol Hill will) and make these currencies irrelevant.
  • #32
  • Edited 6:50am Feb 28, 2020 3:58am | Edited 6:50am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} idealisitically it makes sense for rates to be targeting these dynamics and inflation deflation to adjust based on the market but in practice we have seen it much harder because of a) human greed b) not being able to find correct local or global optima for determining rates c) a monetary system which will continue to lose purchasing power over time because of b... in theory it makes sense and you have complete stability.. that is the most ideal form of money that can be had, but because of the aforementioned problems in practice it does...
I hope you don't mind if we move discussion here, ..have received complains that we wreck that TA thread with our "philosophy"

I dont think we really need something savant as the Nash equilibrium to have the global economy re-experienced eventually by letting ONLY the market dynamics in action forcing money to move where it’s more efficient. This is supply-demand classical liberalism old school ! And we've seen that at work, Great Depression was on their watch !
Then history proves that classical economic liberalism have been much improved since Keynes by money supply enhancing -> stimulating spending -> creating demand -> boosting output. And that have worked in practice, not only theory.
Then the Keynesian model was challenged by the Austrian school and by the right wing politicians at that time in the aftermath of stagflation.
Hungry for power and ego they wanted the whole system changed back to classical liberalism not just fixed, for they were deaf and blind at the true reasons which broken the Keynesian equation.

But crypto could trigger something even worse than aforementioned models, namely libertarianism !
Great on paper, they had libertarianism tested in the 18th century with enormous social costs ...widening even more the gap between the rich and the poor.
At the other end, Marx also predicted the imminent fall of capitalism, also having some great idea on paper.
Crypto also predict the imminent fall of the banking system and governments ...also on paper ...a Satoshi white paper ...OMG, total anarchy and reset the world finance from scratch looks bad even on paper ! BTW, oligarchic crypto fees will simply explode

Hard to believe, but in practice it looks like there is something wrong with wild-solely supply and demand

Crypto could have been a great idea but I still think it will only worsen the problem of the peaks and troughs inherent to the free market.
And those problems mentioned here at post #30 are much worse than the current system.
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  • #33
  • Feb 28, 2020 5:12pm Feb 28, 2020 5:12pm
Ok, I see this image in another thread.

The message of truth not reaching the senses of some.

I will put in point form so some can understand better

1. The stock market won't go away.

2. All dips are bought to achieve higher highs. (this has happened since the first stock market opened in the 17th century).

3. Bitcoin is a new instrument, it's long term future is not clear.

4. Bitcoin has many competitors, but not as strong as Bitcoin.

5. Sovereign digital currencies to be issued by central banks, will add significant competition to Bitcoin's position as a legitimate currency.

6. Banks friends/servants in Capitol Hill may decide to outlaw all non-sovereign digital currencies for a number of reasons
a) Criminal use of bitcoin because of anonymity.
b) Terror states wanting to use bitcoin to avoid sanctions, and make big bad bombs against UK, USA, and other western countries
c) Too much volatility of Bitcoin because of Whale manipulation (in secret of course), makes Bitcoin unsuitable as a currency for job income.
d) Capitol Hill friends of Banks, do their bank friends a favour, and outlaw non-sovereign crypto's to help banks keep control of money supply, interest rates, and profits.

I know these are many points, and maybe some cannot follow.

But at least know the truth and reality

Take lot's of time to read again and again, until you understand

This post is not going away after all
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  • #34
  • Feb 29, 2020 7:02pm Feb 29, 2020 7:02pm
Time now for another lesson for Noob-KPMG.

He says claims and ideas that bitcoin will send us back to dark ages, or maybe even black death in middle ages or something, are false because it hasn't happened yet.

bitcoin been around for over 10 years, but we still have jobs, we still have growing economies, we still buying meat and going on holidays.

Can't do this if an economy was to be ravaged by big evil bitcoin right?

Right

But bitcoin circulation and use for goods and services, is tiny in comparison to fiat currency in circulation to keep feeding the economy.
Bitcoin right now is like a teeny weeny sniffle, not even that. It's like a few little bugs floating around, no volume, not replicating much, just dawdling like a lazy child.
Not many people using it in the economy.

Certainly not enough to keep you at home away from work.
It's not corona virus you know.

But crypto is yelling victory, proved all wrong.
Economy not in dark ages, economy is still in the light.

Silly.

Now lesson part 2:

Governments in HUGE debt.
BAD.
Who pays the debt?
Under what compulsion?

Think for a little while, then we will continue the lesson ok?
Go rest now, you have much to learn.
  • #35
  • Feb 29, 2020 7:52pm Feb 29, 2020 7:52pm
I good outline and study of bitcoin.
A few years old, but little has changed.

https://www.piie.com/system/files/documents/pb17-13.pdf

Read, but only if the truth does NOT offend you.

Think about if you can handle it or not before reading ok?
  • #36
  • Mar 2, 2020 4:44am Mar 2, 2020 4:44am
Bitcoin monthly bar says down.
  • #37
  • Mar 3, 2020 2:24am Mar 3, 2020 2:24am
The funny thing is that blockchain was supposed to underpin a rebel revolution but in the end it proves it's more suitable for the governments to consolidate and appropriate the fiat money.
Some crypto morons must have a heart attack when they will realise that
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  • #38
  • Last Post: Edited Mar 5, 2020 7:15am Mar 4, 2020 11:29am | Edited Mar 5, 2020 7:15am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Wasn’t that around the time you said there was an April’s fools pump and dump last year? Still happening I see? The market has to be wrong you must be right, right? Seems like someone hasn’t traded long enough to understand the basics that the market is never wrong. Mcafee is a billionaire and knows a thing or two about value proposition. Maybe your assumptions about money are incorrect and everything you believe in is thus invalidated.
No.
I just bring simple true facts.
- It was obviously a Fools Day, nobody is that stupid and blind, ...such a gross manipulation, like bitcoin was just lying there at 4K and a miracle suddenly happened... people were blind and now they can see how great is bitcoin, and BAM! ...13K just like that, ...hey, you insult people here thinking they are that stupid!
- Crypto is illicit by default because of the anonymity of the ownership.
- Also you very well know about the scalability trilemma... still unsolved.
- McAfee is a lucky gambler and a low character calling sane prudent investors stupid.
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