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  • #5,781
  • Dec 28, 2019 2:48pm Dec 28, 2019 2:48pm
Quoting Saskabacha
New strategy for me guys. I'm going to move half my account to IG and try to arbitrage swap rates between the two brokers. Not sure if this will be feasible considering the Oanda finance charges are so random and last minute, but I will try ... It could be a money maker. And if enough of us do it they will be forced to move swap to reasonable levels.
I wish you good luck using arbitrage. Between 2005 and 2007 I made lots of profits using arbitrage between FXCM and another broker located in an Arabic country that did not charge any swap or fees. In those days the best arbitrage currency was the AUD that had a high interest rate against the GBP and USD that had quite low rates. Unfortunately these days are gone
  • #5,782
  • Dec 28, 2019 8:00pm Dec 28, 2019 8:00pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} I wish you good luck using arbitrage. Between 2005 and 2007 I made lots of profits using arbitrage between FXCM and another broker located in an Arabic country that did not charge any swap or fees. In those days the best arbitrage currency was the AUD that had a high interest rate against the GBP and USD that had quite low rates. Unfortunately these days are gone
Lesson learned over XMAS: utilize multiple brokers so I can game then instead of them gaming me. I'll just route orders to the broker that has the lowest overall cost (considering spread, swap, etc.). Oanda can have all my positive swap orders until things change again. Maybe, on occasion, arbitrage will be possible as it may have been over this XMAS period. There will be more complexities in building an MT4 system that does all of this, but it is what it is.

Notice, also, how they seem to vary this swap so much day to day so you never know where the roulette wheel is going to land. Just looking at short cost:

December 26th: AUDCHF -6.80%, USDJPY -59.91%
December 27th: AUDCHF -33.41% USDJPY -6.40%

Just want to make sure nobody escapes without paying them their XMAS present.

And then they don't finalize the numbers right until the time of release, limit your search to 10 days, set up their financing fees website with JS to be really hard to webscrape (if any of you have figured it out please let me know ...)

What I would like to know is how any of this is even legal?

The long and the short of it is this. It would love to have a broker that I could partner with and who is satisfied with all the spread commission and swaps I paying them. It's a decent amount of money every month. I would praise this broker and bring them more of my own business and that of my friends. Instead, I have to play this cat and mouse game where I "feel" that the broker and the regulators are doing everying in their power to try to wipe me out. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly, but I have yet to hear any rational explanation for why hedging (a risk reduction technique) is considered illegal in the US, why it's so critical to implement FIFO, what exactly are the "liquidity issues" that can possibly justify a 60% Oanda financing rate just for the XMAS period, and why these swap charges bounce around currencies like a roulette ball day to day.

Possibly I'm not seeing things clearly, or possibly I am.
  • #5,783
  • Dec 28, 2019 8:17pm Dec 28, 2019 8:17pm
Quoting Saskabacha
New strategy for me guys. I'm going to move half my account to IG and try to arbitrage swap rates between the two brokers. Not sure if this will be feasible considering the Oanda finance charges are so random and last minute, but I will try ... It could be a money maker. And if enough of us do it they will be forced to move swap to reasonable levels.
Hey bud. That is an awesome idea. What I will tell you from experience is that if there is a good opportunity it probably wont last long. My guess is Oanda will thread the needle and find a middle ground where it is very hard to arb but still screwing you on interest.. Example i was crying because I am paying 10x more in a certain case. They will make it so I am paying 5x more but harder to arb. But in the meantime I suggest you try to smash these guys as good as you can. Most good opportunities close fairly quickly.

Do you know of any brokers that are very fair with there interest rates? I would like to do a comparison. I asked a friend to do a GBP comparison the other day. I am assuming Oanda was charging for 3 days on Friday since rates were enormous!!! How do we know? Oh ya thats right they keep us in the dark about that! Wink Wink! Well I am assuming it was for 3 days. The rate was -87.35 for 100,000 units for 3 days. Lets divide 87.35 by 3 and you get 29.12 per day. My friend said at IB that you were charged 3.50 per day. However important to note he said that if you were short you would get a credit of $3.50 Does IB actually take no cut where the take is the same as the pay? Something very well might be wrong here. And to boot he was plugging in a forumula to get these numbers to get to the $3.50 rate. He was not taking it from a sheet like I was at Oanda. So disclaimer here. Do your due diligence to confirm numbers and please correct me if I am wrong. However there appears to be good opportunity there! GL Sasky!
  • #5,784
  • Dec 28, 2019 8:20pm Dec 28, 2019 8:20pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} I wish you good luck using arbitrage. Between 2005 and 2007 I made lots of profits using arbitrage between FXCM and another broker located in an Arabic country that did not charge any swap or fees. In those days the best arbitrage currency was the AUD that had a high interest rate against the GBP and USD that had quite low rates. Unfortunately these days are gone
That is so awesome you were able to crush it back in 2005/2007. Ah the good old days!!!

Does there happen to be any of these brokers around now that dont charge any swap or fees? I highly doubt it. Do you happen to know the places with the most competitive fees?

Good luck!!!
  • #5,785
  • Dec 28, 2019 10:52pm Dec 28, 2019 10:52pm
There is no charge unless have open positions at 5pm.

To escape the swap simply close your position before 5pm
  • #5,786
  • Dec 29, 2019 12:54am Dec 29, 2019 12:54am
Quoting MagnumPI
{quote} Hey bud. That is an awesome idea. What I will tell you from experience is that if there is a good opportunity it probably wont last long. My guess is Oanda will thread the needle and find a middle ground where it is very hard to arb but still screwing you on interest.. Example i was crying because I am paying 10x more in a certain case. They will make it so I am paying 5x more but harder to arb. But in the meantime I suggest you try to smash these guys as good as you can. Most good opportunities close fairly quickly. Do you know of any brokers...
MagPI, thanks for the information about Interactive Brokers. I'm sure the Oanda finance changes will all settle down in the New Year, the company will stay quiet or blame it on liquidity, the financing fees webpage will cycle-off the evidence after 10 days, and everyone will forget how we got scalped during this XMAS season. But I won't forget. I will start extending my system in the New Year to a multi-broker system to be ready for the next dirty trick Oanda or some other broker decides to pull. And also to route orders to the broker of lowest cost every time. Maybe I won't be able to get this all done in time just to arbitrage swaps but if the opportunity presents itself I'll be there to strike. This whole situation has given me a clear idea of exactly what direction I want to take this.
  • #5,787
  • Edited 8:09pm Dec 29, 2019 5:52am | Edited 8:09pm
Oanda's spreads are comparable and a bit better than IG. Oanda's one of the largest/long-standing and well capitalized fx brokers in the world. IB might not be suited for people here.

Can't say I'm too fond of the newer IG in the American mkt. Not many people know they're the parent company of the nadex binary options exchange....I don't know how they call it an exchange since there is no other counter-party except you guessed it. The binaries are proprietarily unique against euro binaries. They're calculated so that all the beta is at the money along with gargantuan spreads, everything comes down to the tick. I've looked at them for a possible hedge but are too sketchy and frankly just janky. Hence I just can't view IG the way uninformed do.

Aside from the CFTC's stringent rules turning a lot of international brokers out of the US is their capitalization requirements. Don't quote, but it's pretty close to a hundred million dollars which disqualifies most if not all of your fav Cyprian and cayman shops. Really isn't that much for US brokerages to obtain - securities or spot n' futures. A lot of the internationals that can - have enough business without the US mkt and just don't want to deal with the NFA/CFTC. History also shows off shores that come to the US are fuck-ups, even the well capitalized; they just can't run a clean biz.

I guess enough bitching might change things. Remember, Oanda changed their swap rules because of the complaints. I guess we'll see. Till then rack up the returns to make up for losses. I know sometimes you may have to hold positions overnight.
  • #5,788
  • Dec 29, 2019 2:14pm Dec 29, 2019 2:14pm
What are our choices in US for normal swaps - we have none.period.
  • #5,789
  • Dec 29, 2019 2:39pm Dec 29, 2019 2:39pm
Quoting Saskabacha
{quote} Possibly I'm not seeing things clearly, or possibly I am.
Darn I just put my glasses on and I see the same thing as you and it very clear
  • #5,790
  • Dec 29, 2019 4:01pm Dec 29, 2019 4:01pm
Forex.com says they're US's largest, they're a gain capital company. Their rollover pricing is almost identical to Oanda's. I think US rollover swap issues aren't something totally self imposed and there's more to it. Swap rate hasn't really bothered me. I did see a finance charge on the Oanda front since I held a long the 27th, that was covered by good measure so I didn't really notice.

Behoove yourselves this coming first of the month.
  • #5,791
  • Dec 29, 2019 4:26pm Dec 29, 2019 4:26pm
Quoting JTevens
Remember, Oanda changed their swap rules because of the complaints.
Is this true? That is what Oanda claimed. And Oanda is an international company, applying their new swap rules around the world .....

Still, I see this uncanny parallel between the new swap policy and the initial / maintenance margin in the US futures markets. Both put up big hurdle at a specific time of day to herd all traders into taking only short-term positions and intraday trading. With futures, sometimes the maintenance margin increases 6x to 10x the initial margin if you hold the positiion past that hour of day.

Call me a conspiracy throeist but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFA / CFTC had a hand in this.
  • #5,792
  • Dec 29, 2019 8:34pm Dec 29, 2019 8:34pm
As a poster said earlier swap isn't going away, it's part of the deal. Ideally most here shouldn't even be trading on holidays. Took a gander at one of the SEVERAL eur forums and it's the same swap gripe there yet they totally disregard they lost their trousers shorting the eur move all the way up. That's pretty questionable where their heads are. Forexfactory is like giant siphon of fx gamblers I'm finding.

Speaking of..nice move on the eur just now. Left that on the table....what a distraction forexfactory is as well. What a way to take the professionalism out of things as I spend too much time here. No excuses

Cheers
  • #5,793
  • Dec 29, 2019 9:01pm Dec 29, 2019 9:01pm
Quoting JTevens
As a poster said earlier swap isn't going away, it's part of the deal. Ideally most here shouldn't even be trading on holidays. Took a gander at one of the SEVERAL eur forums and it's the same swap gripe there yet they totally disregard they lost their trousers shorting the eur move all the way up. That's pretty questionable where their heads are. Forexfactory is like giant siphon of fx gamblers I'm finding. Speaking of..nice move on the eur just now. Left that on the table....what a distraction forexfactory is as well. What a way to take the professionalism...
Ok, JTevens. Point taken. I was actually enjoying the back-and-forth about swaps and sharing some ideas of how to trade with this "fact of life". Is there anything in particular (with a higher degree of professionalism) that you would prefer to discuss? We can move on to something new and much more interesting, give us some or your ideas? Or maybe the point of the board is just to say nothing and that's fine as well. We'll just wind it all down ...
  • #5,794
  • Dec 29, 2019 9:28pm Dec 29, 2019 9:28pm
Quoting Saskabacha
{quote} MagPI, thanks for the information about Interactive Brokers. I'm sure the Oanda finance changes will all settle down in the New Year, the company will stay quiet or blame it on liquidity, the financing fees webpage will cycle-off the evidence after 10 days, and everyone will forget how we got scalped during this XMAS season. But I won't forget. I will start extending my system in the New Year to a multi-broker system to be ready for the next dirty trick Oanda or some other broker decides to pull. And also to route orders to the broker of...
Hey bud. No probs about the IB info. You are sure the Oanda charges will settle down in the New Year? I am not sure of that but am sure hoping that. I dont understand how they were able to offer good rates for so long. Why cant they do that now? If they were able to do it before and be very successful why stop? Why doesnt another firm do what Oanda was doing. They would get a ton of business. Everyone will forget the gouging they did in the New Year? I highly doubt that. I know you wont and I know I will never forget it.
  • #5,795
  • Dec 29, 2019 9:51pm Dec 29, 2019 9:51pm
MagPI,
I guess it's just you and me ...
I can't figure out how to scrape this fees webpage (hard for me, they rendered it with javascript), so I manually saved pdf's and typed the swap numbers into a spreadsheet from Dec18 - today for 21 currencies (not quite done yet). Since I can't really close my positions I'm going to use this data to figure out what currencies to partially hedge swap in subaccounts until liquidity comes back. Let me know if you want it.
  • #5,796
  • Dec 29, 2019 10:29pm Dec 29, 2019 10:29pm
Here it is, if any of you guys want it. To hedge over new years, or whatever ...
Attached File(s)
File Type: xlsx oanda_swap_cost.xlsx   8 KB | 324 downloads
  • #5,797
  • Dec 29, 2019 10:51pm Dec 29, 2019 10:51pm
Quoting Saskabacha
MagPI, I guess it's just you and me ... I can't figure out how to scrape this fees webpage (hard for me, they rendered it with javascript), so I manually saved pdf's and typed the swap numbers into a spreadsheet from Dec18 - today for 21 currencies (not quite done yet). Since I can't really close my positions I'm going to use this data to figure out what currencies to partially hedge swap in subaccounts until liquidity comes back. Let me know if you want it.
Hey bud. Just fyi I am not going to leave this forum. I really really really appreciate you posting here. I am doing a ton of stuff and have limited time but I will do my best to keep up. Also they hold my posts to be reviewed. I guess because I am a new member. So sometimes I want to reply right away but it takes time. I am sure that review thing will come off after awhile.

I call it like I see it. Oanda used to be awesome. Now imho they are garbage. They are so silly if you ask me. They had a little monopoly as far as I know. They offered the second by second interest. Very good rates before. They are going to lose so much business.

Once again thanks for posting. I have learned a lot here. I am not done with trading, just with Oanda.
  • #5,798
  • Dec 30, 2019 6:13am Dec 30, 2019 6:13am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Darn I just put my glasses on and I see the same thing as you and it very clear
We'll, I've finally taken the "red pill". I notice that Hutch has been with Forex Factory since 2010 so I'm sure it's been entertaining around the holiday season for each of the last 9 years ...

It's Christmas Time for the brokers!!!! Nothing more, nothing less. With no news they ARE the market and they are moving the prices wherever they want them to be. The upcoming swap "flavor of the day" is EURAUD long at -$75.41 last I checked, and that's the only thing out there right now moving the price. Just see what happened to M1 trend tonight at the point Oanda preliminary swap numbers were released.

So now that Oanda has changed it's swap policy the industry is is perfect harmony. They are all in it together.

At least that's the way I see it now, with my glasses on.
  • #5,799
  • Dec 30, 2019 11:04am Dec 30, 2019 11:04am
Quoting Saskabacha
{quote} We'll, I've finally taken the "red pill". I notice that Hutch has been with Forex Factory since 2010 so I'm sure it's been entertaining around the holiday season for each of the last 9 years ... It's Christmas Time for the brokers!!!! Nothing more, nothing less. With no news they ARE the market and they are moving the prices wherever they want them to be. The upcoming swap "flavor of the day" is EURAUD long at -$75.41 last I checked, and that's the only thing out there right now moving the price. Just see what happened to M1 trend tonight...
I have been trading forex with Oanda since 2006 and never had any problem. Because of the lack of liquidity brokers increase their spreads during major holidays so I never trade during the Christmas and the New Year weeks because of those crazy spreads. My biggest entertainment during the last 9 years has been Brexit since it never seems to end. Trading the GBP has been the best trading pair for the last 3 years. I can't wait for 31 January
  • #5,800
  • Dec 30, 2019 1:02pm Dec 30, 2019 1:02pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} I have been trading forex with Oanda since 2006 and never had any problem. Because of the lack of liquidity brokers increase their spreads during major holidays so I never trade during the Christmas and the New Year weeks because of those crazy spreads. My biggest entertainment during the last 9 years has been Brexit since it never seems to end. Trading the GBP has been the best trading pair for the last 3 years. I can't wait for 31 January
yeah, but we're not complaining about spreads!! we're talking about Oanda's 3x above standard financing fees
who dares wins
mashFX DSRII Return This Year: na
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