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Successful traders are very, very rare to find

  • #661
  • Edited Nov 22, 2019 3:50am Nov 21, 2019 11:17pm | Edited Nov 22, 2019 3:50am
Quoting birpinar
{quote} You open a position and forget the position because you do not give it a f.ck and yet you get more successful. Really? How come?
You forget about your position only because you're stupid, not because you can afford to be relaxed in trading
You miss the point anyway, it was all about the state of mind when you are in the front of your trading desk! ..not about being a reckless idiot!

Message is:
Idiots are losers also because they're too tense, hasty and desperate (fluttering eyelashes)
Member
  • #662
  • Dec 11, 2019 2:39am Dec 11, 2019 2:39am
Yes, they are rare. Why?
Because they don't follow others, they don't copy others charts/ideas/trends/etc.

They're satisfied with few percentage per day/week/month - they don't chase 2x-3x-4x per balance.

They are disciplined - as it says, we attract what we are, so, how come we never meet this kind of people. Because we are disciplined? We don't respect our money management? We just enter in a trade so we can be in it, why aren't we waiting for the right moment, even if no trades were done in days.. A lot of answers needs to be spoken before asking why they are rare..

My 2 cents.
  • #663
  • Dec 11, 2019 11:32pm Dec 11, 2019 11:32pm
Quoting Rennaissance
I don't know your experience, but successful traders are very hard to find. A lot of guys who seem successful will fail over the long because they use negatively skewed strategies. What's your experience guys?
Totally agreed, the thing is trading is very dynamic, it changes with the trend so nobody can be a perfect trader. Traders who have good knowledge of how to act in different situations are very rare.
  • #664
  • Dec 13, 2019 5:01am Dec 13, 2019 5:01am
I agree with you. Traders lack discipline which is one of the most important things if one wants to be a successful trader. Discipline helps you take the best decisions and controls all sorts of unnecessary trading. Disciplined traders know exactly when to place a trade and when to stay away from it.
  • #665
  • Edited 2:31pm Dec 13, 2019 1:15pm | Edited 2:31pm
Meanwhile, could you check the CHEETAH thread where we PROVED (all timestamped) what COULD be done already... FACTOR x1000+ on deposit...
The question is not if you are a successful trader FOREVER, at all times.. but are you successful LONG enough to GET as much as you can and GTFO before you give it back... That is true for most.. Many got HIGH but though this would go forever... not so.. some things work some of the time, for most... I think the problem is that people are expecting BANK DEPOSIT consistency... AND FACTOR x100 profits on deposit.. at the same time, for the next 40years, lifetime or whatever..
It is much more about BOXING, if we are talking about EPIC returns/profits... But can also be about LONG-TERM, just not with the crazy returns forever as many are expecting...
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #666
  • Dec 14, 2019 12:46pm Dec 14, 2019 12:46pm
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  • #667
  • Dec 15, 2019 12:14pm Dec 15, 2019 12:14pm
Of course most fail. Look who you're trading against...the banks and institutions. They don't use the same tools you use either. Imo retail trading was sold as a way for the "little guy" to make money but was actually set up as a way for the banks to increase their investment capital, just like a casino.

That doesn't mean you can't be profitable, just means you gotta be diff than the other 95%. Whatever that ends up meaning lol.
  • #668
  • Dec 15, 2019 5:18pm Dec 15, 2019 5:18pm
Quoting tcshaw91
Of course most fail. Look who you're trading against...the banks and institutions. They don't use the same tools you use either. Imo retail trading was sold as a way for the "little guy" to make money but was actually set up as a way for the banks to increase their investment capital, just like a casino. That doesn't mean you can't be profitable, just means you gotta be diff than the other 95%. Whatever that ends up meaning lol.
Exactly right. Great post.
All these "tools" we get as retailers such as oscillators or the new orderflow you have to wonder why so readily available?
The banks made them up years ago to get your money. Breakout trading?? wow. we actually fell for that. People think its a great idea to buy top edge and sell bottom edges. These tools are designed for you to buy and sell LATE into their liquidity.

The only time these "tools" seemingly work is in trends when they want you to be pushing price for them. But when they are in accumulation mode you will get destroyed.

The only way to make money is to understand where discounts are, where liquidity is to attack, your markets drivers and when to do all this. 24:5 is the biggest myth of them all. another gimmick.
  • #669
  • Dec 15, 2019 9:00pm Dec 15, 2019 9:00pm
Quoting tcshaw91
Of course most fail. Look who you're trading against...the banks and institutions. They don't use the same tools you use either. Imo retail trading was sold as a way for the "little guy" to make money but was actually set up as a way for the banks to increase their investment capital, just like a casino. That doesn't mean you can't be profitable, just means you gotta be diff than the other 95%. Whatever that ends up meaning lol.
you mean BROKERS lol.. banks don't give a damn about retail traders, that's for sure.
  • #670
  • Edited Dec 16, 2019 12:28am Dec 15, 2019 9:29pm | Edited Dec 16, 2019 12:28am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} you mean BROKERS lol.. banks don't give a damn about retail traders, that's for sure.
I don't believe in conspiracy stuff...

reality is that markets are becoming efficient.. hence why the good old systems don't peform that well anymore.

apparently they still work... just returns are s**t compared to a few years ago... in other words.. you'd need more capital to start with.

p.s. all this according to my own experience and people that I trust ... if your strategies still perform well nowdays good for you.
  • #671
  • Dec 16, 2019 12:40am Dec 16, 2019 12:40am
Quoting auricforecas
Meanwhile, could you check the CHEETAH thread where we PROVED (all timestamped) what COULD be done already... FACTOR x1000+ on deposit... The question is not if you are a successful trader FOREVER, at all times.. but are you successful LONG enough to GET as much as you can and GTFO before you give it back... That is true for most.. Many got HIGH but though this would go forever... not so.. some things work some of the time, for most... I think the problem is that people...
Smart traders are hard to find, they are a rare species!!!
  • #672
  • Dec 16, 2019 12:54am Dec 16, 2019 12:54am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I don't believe in conspiracy stuff... reality is that markets are becoming efficient.. hence why the good old systems don't peform that well anymore. apparently they still work... just returns are s**t compared to a few years ago... in other words.. you'd need more capital to start with. p.s. all this according to my own experience and people that I trust ... if your strategies still perform well nowdays good for you.
I also laugh when people wine about banks and brokers. As thou even the cartel of banks had enough money to influence a more than 5 trillion dollar a day market. I don't think markets are becoming more efficient, I just think alot of the known stuff that used to work well has been commoditized. It's like any other business, the profits always get destroyed by competition. You have today so much money chasing the same strategies. In all competitive business models capital is king. The answer is to find a unique and original idea that is so differentiated from what is out there. Odds of success (1 in 10 000).Thanks for your contribution, cheers.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #673
  • Edited 6:28am Dec 16, 2019 6:10am | Edited 6:28am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} I also laugh when people wine about banks and brokers. As thou even the cartel of banks had enough money to influence a more than 5 trillion dollar a day market. I don't think markets are becoming more efficient, I just think alot of the known stuff that used to work well has been commoditized. It's like any other business, the profits always get destroyed by competition. You have today so much money chasing the same strategies. In all competitive business models capital is king. The answer is to find a unique and original idea that is so...
You are spot on BTW I saw/used 2 edges through my 10+ trading times... The first I developed myself.. gave some bits and pieces but kept the KERNEL to myself... I am still using it.. but won't reveal it all because it is not fully confirmed (if at all) if it really does work.. if it does that might change (everything)... So have to be careful... would prefer to earn myself (good or FU position level) first, just in case... And the second we developed in a group.. and then one guy couldn't resist of started bragging in 1-2month... and to many people jumped in and the edge was gone... EGO is the costliest thing... Ferraris are cheap in comparison... I say that I can dream about horses (cars) and falcons (jets) at my wrist.. but can not afford the luxury of EGO and its derivatives: egotrip, cock measuring, stubbornness etc... Very simple lesson but majority fail at that... I talk about this in "Why are we here" thread... because some people seemed to forgot that we are all here to get money... If that was their original idea in the first place... BTW this is the first DRILL "they" teach you in WS or army... CRUSHING ego, rebuilding it.. As you can see many have too big ego to learn anything new... BASICS are the hardest... "Why are we here" and to ask for every trader/poster/thread/post "Does/could this ADD to my PROFIT or not"... Some seem to follow the losing traders/systems to abyss... and some very profitable ones... get disregarded.. it is amazing
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #674
  • Dec 17, 2019 6:22am Dec 17, 2019 6:22am
its not hard to find successful traders. its hard to adopt there strategy.But find a right mentor is very very hard work. when i was start trading i use MA's, RSI etc never stick to plan. i blow my account after account. then i come across a trader, i check his free learning marital of on his website. months of study i find right trading plan what works for years. then i stick with it. over 3 year now, i trade take loss/profit. but sticking with plan is one the thing i learn. Patience is very very Important for trading. You fail but if you work hard on mentally then you will successful like others.
  • #675
  • Dec 17, 2019 8:25am Dec 17, 2019 8:25am
Quoting qasmanc1
its not hard to find successful traders. its hard to adopt there strategy.But find a right mentor is very very hard work. when i was start trading i use MA's, RSI etc never stick to plan. i blow my account after account. then i come across a trader, i check his free learning marital of on his website. months of study i find right trading plan what works for years. then i stick with it. over 3 year now, i trade take loss/profit. but sticking with plan is one the thing i learn. Patience is very very Important for trading. You fail but if you work...
Also... I found that it is much easier to teach/mentor a rookie because with the one that already "knows" something.. you have to UNINSTALL the previous assumptions and have to "defend" to what other might have though him... Usually the ones that do not know how to trade Not saying I or anyone else do but some principles have internal failed logic to begin with... It is a nightmare... trying to explain why some "rules" are just ridiculous, at least if one is looking for then 1-2 steps ahead One of them I already talked about... I understand this scene more and more... Also, some engineering types are HARDEST to learn how to trade... Or some from "structural" professions, industry.. because they can not get pass the idea that there are no FIX rules, no FIX AWARD ladder/scale, progress scale... like "good boy"=more money or "more sucking up"=more money... Forget about it... most of the "skills" from most professions are WORTHLESS in this racket. Trading is the closest to "singularity" as it gets... Some rules DO appear to "work" some of the time... Some rules (temporary) do not work... One has to have some preconditioned mind for this, if you ask me.. or spend (have seen that before also) quite some time recalibrating it... Also some are looking for POLITENESS, "manners".. I think they are in the wrong racket... If you want to be a WIZARD, out of the box... it might be best to be a "NUTCASE" or to become one... if you want to see something other "normal people" are not... Trading is CHAOS... but some APPEAR to find ORDER in it... this comes at a price however... But the ones that get through... have 0 regrets of doing it... Just be prepared to be tested (WITHIN) to the MAX!

“The toughest battle you’ll ever fight in your life is the battle within yourself.” Anonymous
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #676
  • Dec 17, 2019 12:43pm Dec 17, 2019 12:43pm
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} I also laugh when people wine about banks and brokers. As thou even the cartel of banks had enough money to influence a more than 5 trillion dollar a day market. I don't think markets are becoming more efficient, I just think alot of the known stuff that used to work well has been commoditized. It's like any other business, the profits always get destroyed by competition. You have today so much money chasing the same strategies. In all competitive business models capital is king. The answer is to find a unique and original idea that is so...
something new yes.. like a new martingale variant ? hehehehe

Ahhh mate... these markets are becoming too competitive IMO.

I decided to invest some sleeping money (about 10k euro) in the stock market.

If I managed to keep "sane" trading CFDs with 500 leverage... buy and hold a couple stocks will be a walk in the park.

of course, if my $400 account performs well in the next months I will add funds. I still have faith in systems... as long as they are "not for everyone": boring, tough, counter-intuitive etc.
  • #677
  • Dec 17, 2019 9:22pm Dec 17, 2019 9:22pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} something new yes.. like a new martingale variant ? hehehehe Ahhh mate... these markets are becoming too competitive IMO. I decided to invest some sleeping money (about 10k euro) in the stock market. If I managed to keep "sane" trading CFDs with 500 leverage... buy and hold a couple stocks will be a walk in the park. of course, if my $400 account performs well in the next months I will add funds. I still have faith in systems... as long as they are "not for everyone": boring, tough, counter-intuitive etc.
BUY and Hold has become very compelling because of the last 11 years roaring bull market. At some point people will understand that it is not a risk free trade. Certainly not a way to get rich, but if you have a 40 years horizon you might retire with something. Trading has always been super competitive if not there will be more stories of success.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #678
  • Dec 18, 2019 1:00am Dec 18, 2019 1:00am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} BUY and Hold has become very compelling because of the last 11 years roaring bull market. At some point people will understand that it is not a risk free trade. Certainly not a way to get rich, but if you have a 40 years horizon you might retire with something. Trading has always been super competitive if not there will be more stories of success.
yeah it's a high risk / high return kind of investment that I do with sleeping money, even though I bet on big companies that are unlikely to fail. I have a looong term horizon, fortunately I'm still """young"""... jeez, 40 years sounds a bit too much.. we'll see.

I invest in other things too.. I also plan to buy physical gold .
  • #679
  • Dec 18, 2019 4:43am Dec 18, 2019 4:43am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} I also laugh when people wine about banks and brokers. As thou even the cartel of banks had enough money to influence a more than 5 trillion dollar a day market.
eh, you're joking though right?
  • #680
  • Dec 18, 2019 10:11am Dec 18, 2019 10:11am
Hello. I have 1 year trading experience. For 3 months I made 150 trades, 75% of the trades were stop-loss. But the remaining 25% of profitable trades made me 23% of the profit on deposit.The average profitable trade was risk / profit = 1/4, several trades were 1/10.

That was enough to make 25% of the profit. After that, I realized that expectation and risk control is a great force. And I can safely trade and maybe I can be successful.Since 2020, I decided to trade on a daily time frame,Cfd -stocks. I am not interested in intraday trading.
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