EU's Juncker to PM Johnson: Britain must make proposals to replace backstop

Sep 16, 2019 9:25am

Quoting RossEdwards

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Dont know about others but we dont to business with people who openly advocate breaking the Law or have no authority or mandate from the companies they purport to represent. Its lunacy. Johnson is breezing around Brussels pretending to be Prime Minister of the UK But we KNOW he has no authority. He has no majority. Hes been elected as PM by 0.01% of the people? He represents a policy that 54% of the UK electorate in the last GE rejected, and best of all hes openly saying he will break the Law of his own Nation. And all the while the latest polls...

Ignored

And if the law is unconstitutional?
https://twitter.com/addicted2newz/st...36906775093248

Fortunately it doesn't matter if the EU think Boris is a nut, he is the head of state of the UK and ultimately calls the shots on behalf of the UK.

If Parliament don't like that then the constitutionally proper way is to remove him from office.

Sep 16, 2019 12:26pm

Talking rubbish again, bones

Quoting Bones

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Its a law made up by the opposition for political purpose.

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Duh. It is prerogative of Parliament to make laws - for all purposes, political or not.

Opposition MPs are MPs with full rights - they have same right to legislature as those of the majority. Many laws pass with consensus across party lines and gather many more "yes" votes than the majority count.

Quoting Bones

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They are going to challenge that law in the courts.

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They can challenge, but the courts may refuse to give opinion saying it violates the separation of powers. That will put a swift end to it and reaffirm Parliament's spremacy on the matter.

Generally courts stay out of politics - as they should - unless it comes down to constitutional matters. If UK had modernized their democracy with a proper constitution and special constitutional court empowered to decide on constitutional (that is, political) matters, things woldn't be such a mess.

Quoting Bones

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The only way it could be made is in a weird world where the opposition is in control of the parliament agenda...and the government do not have a majority.

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Weird world???? Which woodwork did you come out from? Things like this are part and parcel of parliamentary democracy. Ruling parties losing their majority is very common. This is the point I made to verv before: Robust opposition among other things serves valuable role to inform society when the majority has lost their mandate.

This is not the weird world, bones. This is the normal word. The weird world is when the PM of the supposed majority declares he will disobey an Act of Parliament.

Sep 16, 2019 2:58pm

Quoting Bones

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I have laid out Boris's strategy, you say I'm talking rubbish.

Ignored

Oh no. That part is not rubbish. That's the scary thing about it.

The plan is pretty much known - polarize the UK society to the extreme then leverage the first-by-the-post electoral system to get the majority in Parliament to pass any legislation you need to make your version of Brexit happen in close alliance with The Brexit Party.

BoJo's refusal, the die in a ditch shenanigans - it is a means to radicalize the society thus increase their electoral base. I am sure the lawsuit will be used for the same purpose. That's why i doesn't matter who wins it - as long as the drama plays out on the screens. Create an aura of martyrdom around the hero of the people then pit the people against the enemies of the people sitting in the corrupt parliament. Yada yada yada. Steve Bannon's intellectual footprint is squarely splattered over it.

But you people are not so interesting. Your script is written, your role is cast. I am more eager to see how the opposition will fight it.

Sep 17, 2019 7:33am — Edited

You have to be demeaning to make an argument against opposing views. That instantly puts your view in a superior place.
All we want is not to be drawn into the superstate and have treaties fly past our eyes with no check or balance by the people.
It is a revolution in a way, completely peaceful using the correct modern-day vehicle to do it.

Quoting ekan

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{quote} I am fully aware of it, and I agree. And not just UK Leavers, this is the pattern of all what we call "populists" or "nationalists" across the continent, too. But then, when the Leavers say "Take back control" - why don't they elaborate what they mean. If they actually mean "Take control from Parliament to "the people"".... then come out and say it. When you say "WE want to make OUR OWN rules", why don't you point out specifically who that WE is. And then let's see what majority...

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Sep 16, 2019 10:42am

Quoting verv

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{quote} The law also says that conspiring with a foreign power against the country is treason. Arguably this what the Remainers did by checking with Brussels if they could get an extension before they conspired to sideline the government.

Ignored

Verv, get your medicine and relax ...you already talking about things like treason !
You're getting too close of paranoia!

Sep 16, 2019 1:35pm

I have laid out Boris's strategy, you say I'm talking rubbish.
=Its going to court, the best outcome is the opposition do it and it does not matter who wins... Because that can be in his election message the people v parliament.

Tell us how is Boris not going to ask for an extension and not break the law?

That's a challenge we can refer back to later. What next on that story?

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Looking forward to it with great interest.

Ignored

Sep 17, 2019 7:53am

Westminster is in an undemocratic EU bubble built over years now and that has to change. The balance is all wrong.
But someone like you is happy with that balance, purely because it suits your own outlook.

It's better not to give the commoner the vote because of all your demeaning reasons.It's better to bring back the referendum but not give all the original options. You're be ok with that...because then you can't lose.

Exodus

Sep 16, 2019 7:13pm

Quoting Bones

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I have laid out Boris's strategy, you say I'm talking rubbish. =Its going to court, the best outcome is the opposition do it and it does not matter who wins... Because that can be in his election message the people v parliament. Tell us how is Boris not going to ask for an extension and not break the law? That's a challenge we can refer back to later. What next on that story? {quote}

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I listened to Boris this evening fielding some pointed and persistent questioning from Laura K about this very subject. Boris very carefully avoided revealing his thoughts on the matter. On 31st October we will find out whether he is a man sticking to his beliefs, or just another hollow shill.

There are still a couple of extreme measures available to 'the government' which could be brought to bear. This is the most interesting, as a spectator sport, that British politics has ever been ... possibly.

RossEdwards

Sep 16, 2019 9:07am

Dont know about others but we dont to business with people who openly advocate breaking the Law or have no authority or mandate from the companies they purport to represent. Its lunacy.

Johnson is breezing around Brussels pretending to be Prime Minister of the UK
But we KNOW he has no authority. He has no majority. Hes been elected as PM by 0.01% of the people?
He represents a policy that 54% of the UK electorate in the last GE rejected,
and best of all hes openly saying he will break the Law of his own Nation. And all the while the latest polls are predicting that the UK may easily break up if Johnson's No-Deal happens?
You couldn't make this up.

And the EU is to take this guy seriously?
TNah.. hey are just laughing at him.
The Hulk? Nah.
Homer Simpson.

Tradewise GBP is coming off its rally high.. and the market is having big problems with how to read what has now become an existential and surreal political crisis for the UK. One thing for sure anybody with investment exposure to UK economy has got to be running at this stage.

Sep 16, 2019 9:05am

Jo Swinson, said today:
"I'm not prepared to let my kids' future be sold down the river just because the kind of previous rules of the way politics was done somehow have to apply."

Government promises, manifesto commitments, constitutional rules... yep none of that mattes anymore. Must stop Brexit whatever the cost to democracy and trust.

Sep 16, 2019 10:31am

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Wait wait wait.....WHAT? Prime minister BJ is UK head of state? Was there a coup d'etat this morning or something????????????

Ignored

Head of Government if you prefer, either way, he is the man who goes to the EU and negotiates on the UK's behalf.

Sep 16, 2019 2:33pm

Quoting barkie

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{quote} I was hoping you would say "yes I read it" because then I could reply "the Uk doesn't even have a written constitution".

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I knew what you were up to lol, however that’s only partially the story. Some of it is written, some of it is tradition.

Sep 16, 2019 2:44pm

Quoting Bones

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I have laid out Boris's strategy, you say I'm talking rubbish.

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The rubbish talk is this: "Its a law made up by the opposition for political purpose.""in a weird world where the opposition is in control of the parliament agenda...and the government do not have a majority".

Sep 17, 2019 7:11am

Quoting Bones

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I'll go further, against what you just posted.
The Uk already has a majority that thinks it's the people Vs Parliament and the establishment.

It's disenfranchisement that partly lies behind the Ref vote in the first place. You can see that in voting turn out.
Also the parties we sent to the EU

Ignored

I am fully aware of it, and I agree. And not just UK Leavers, this is the pattern of all what we call "populists" or "nationalists" across the continent, too.

But then, when the Leavers say "Take back control" - why don't they elaborate what they mean. If they actually mean "Take control from Parliament to "the people"".... then come out and say it.

When you say "WE want to make OUR OWN rules", why don't you point out specifically who that WE is. And then let's see what majority you actually gather for that.

Let' see if you can turn a majority that is grumbling against the faceless "system" while holding the beer can and the bag of chips sprawled on the couch flipping the channels or the Facebook newsfeed into an actual revolutionary power base.

Come out and say it open. We want a revolution. A coup. We want control, so we first need to take it from EU.

Don't hide behind the EU being this that and the other. Yes, I know EU makes such a convenient scapegoat. It's not your fault, is our fault. Many of us, continental Europeans, do it all the time.

Bones.....what did you think you were doing with that referendum? A revolution on the cheap?

Sep 16, 2019 11:08am

It was only 1967 when it was illegal to be gay in England... bad law exists and should be challenged.

Exodus

Sep 16, 2019 7:03pm

Quoting verv

Disliked

{quote} The law also says that conspiring with a foreign power against the country is treason. Arguably this what the Remainers did by checking with Brussels if they could get an extension before they conspired to sideline the government.

Ignored

However there is precedent. Tony Blair did exactly that with George D Bush back in 2002/3

RossEdwards

Sep 16, 2019 8:10am

This isnt the story..LoL

The story is the the UK PM Johnson publically and to foreign leaders , confirmed his intention to dishonour his legal obligation to abide by UK Law.

Sep 16, 2019 8:23am

There is no alternative to the backstop.

That's the point of the backtrap.

Sep 16, 2019 12:44pm

Quoting Bones

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then we can come back to this {quote}

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Looking forward to it with great interest.

Sep 16, 2019 8:41am

Quoting RossEdwards

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This isnt the story..LoL The story is the the UK PM Johnson publically and to foreign leaders , confirmed his intention to dishonour his legal obligation to abide by UK Law.

Ignored

Here's the backstop for stupz!
Now, ...how stupid are the Bojoexiteeres ???????

Attached Image

Sep 16, 2019 8:51am

Quoting Bones

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If they lose that case he still wins the martyr card. But he won't disobey a court after a precedent is set.

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What if the court say the precedent historic word Total-Anti-Lebensraum-Fight?
Isn't it some like paranoic Western sort ov fundamantalizzzm???

Sep 16, 2019 9:04am

Uk- Ireland- Europe?
yet the route to Europe is Ireland- UK -Europe, based on geography.
that's round the houses, cost 2 quid to save 1 lol

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Here's the backstop for stupz! Now, ...how stupid are the Bojoexiteeres ??????? {image}

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Sep 16, 2019 9:15am — Edited

Quoting Bones

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Uk- Ireland- Europe? yet the route to Europe is Ireland- UK -Europe, based on geography. that's round the houses, cost 2 quid to save 1 lol {quote}

Ignored

Not at all, Ireland is already sort of 'European', ...it's the UK wasting value on the Erin route, that's the 'tragedy' for you right wing radicalz

...you're just beating aroung that burned bush... disqualifying yourself endlessly

Quoting RossEdwards

Disliked

Dont know about others but we dont to business with people who openly advocate breaking the Law or have no authority or mandate from the companies they purport to represent. Its lunacy. Johnson is breezing around Brussels pretending to be Prime Minister of the UK But we KNOW he has no authority. He has no majority. Hes been elected as PM by 0.01% of the people? He represents a policy that 54% of the UK electorate in the last GE rejected, and best of all hes openly saying he will break the Law of his own Nation. And all the while the latest polls...

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I'm such a non-typical social element

I mean I have never watched Suprman, Ironman, Spiderman, Hulk ...no-super-hero in my whole life !!!

...geeeeee, not even when I was a child !!! Am I sick ???

Sep 16, 2019 9:32am

Quoting verv

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{quote} And if the law is unconstitutional? https://twitter.com/addicted2newz/st...36906775093248

Ignored

Arianism was "constitutional" too, justta few decades ago. Law, law, law... the law is don't buy chewing gum!
Point: use your brain, don't be a hypocrite to call constitutional when they got you brainwashed

Sep 16, 2019 9:55am

Quoting verv

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{quote} Shouldn't this be directed at Rossedwards, given that I'm saying it's unconstitutional, whereas as he is saying it is the law?

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Just check your brain!
Never mind, keep balabbering about lawz... if the law say to go to jail if you chew gum in the street, you follow it no matter what ! Happy life, pal!

Sep 16, 2019 10:42am

Would you keep to that law? everybody has their day in court that is how laws develop. When you chat to a solicitor he's looking for test cases to figure out the potential ruling.

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Just check your brain! Never mind, keep balabbering about lawz... if the law say to go to jail if you chew gum in the street, you follow it no matter what ! Happy life, pal!

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 10:46am

Quoting Bones

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Would you keep to that law? everybody has their day in court that is how laws develop. When you chat to a solicitor he's looking for test cases to figure out the potential ruling. {quote}

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Go get your bones, butcher! I'm chewing gum in your face whatever your crooked obtuse inquisitorial court decidez

Sep 16, 2019 10:53am

That law is against my EU covered rights. That's what I would say on my day before the judge...Thank god we are an EU member...

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Go get your bones, butcher! I'm chewing gum in your face whatever your crooked obtuse inquisitorial court decidez

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 12:42pm

Ok backbenchers taking control of the order paper is normal. And having a speaker that's not neutral that allowed it, is also just another day in the office, let's us see what's said in court then
we can come back to this

Quoting ekan

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Talking rubbish again, bones {quote} Duh. It is prerogative of Parliament to make laws - for all purposes, political or not. Opposition MPs are MPs with full rights - they have same right to legislature as those of the majority. Many laws pass with consensus across party lines and gather many more "yes" votes than the majority count. {quote} They can challenge, but the courts may refuse to give opinion saying it violates the separation of powers. That will put a swift end to it and reaffirm Parliament's spremacy on the matter. Generally...

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 1:00pm

What they could have done is enshrine an election date in law rather than make a political spectacle>You can't say what we witnessed was normal or the speaker doesn't interpret the rules in an unusual way.

The default setting in the House of Commons is that government business has precedence when it comes to the use of time in the Chamber. This is established in Standing Order No. 14(1).

Standing order 24
This is under the control of the Speaker, so it’s not entirely certain what will happen but it now looks possible to get around the normal position that the Government controls what’s debated in Parliament using this standing order."

The former Liberal Democrat MP claimed triggering SO24 would pave the way to MPs to do "virtually anything" to prevent a no deal Brexit scenario, including turning the revocation of Article 50 into the new default position.

He continued: "This time it can be done to seize control of the agenda and once you seize control of the agenda, you can do virtually anything.

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Looking forward to it with great interest.

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 1:15pm

Dominic Raab

He said the prime minister was absolutely committed to not asking Brussels for an extension.

He said: “We will adhere to the law but also this is such a bad piece of legislation … we will also want to test to the limit what it does actually lawfully require. We will look very carefully at the implications and our interpretation of it.”

The court challenge may come from outside government, he added. “We can’t necessarily control that,” he said, on exactly who would bring a legal case. “People at various points challenged the government over Brexit. We had two legal challenges last week alone and we won both of those,” he said.

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Looking forward to it with great interest.

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 4:26pm — Edited

ok right ,
I expanded the argument, with reasoning about this law not being constitutional in the process it was made.
It was unusual dispute you saying it's the norm.
Seems to me it was un-constitutional & politically motivated. Courts are un predictable in an unusual situation.
But the reasoning of Boris position is not important or if he can win.

I'll go further, against what you just posted.
The Uk already has a majority that thinks it's the people Vs Parliament and the establishment.

It's disenfranchisement that partly lies behind the Ref vote in the first place. You can see that in voting turn out.
Also the parties we sent to the EU

People often refer to the UK having an 'unwritten constitution' but that's not strictly true. It may not exist in a single text, like in the USA or Germany, but large parts of it are written down, much of it in the laws passed in Parliament - known as statute law.
Therefore, the UK constitution is often described as 'partly written and wholly uncodified'. (Uncodified means that the UK does not have a single, written constitution.)

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Oh no. That part is not rubbish. That's the scary thing about it. The plan is pretty much known - polarize the UK society to the extreme then leverage the first-by-the-post electoral system to get the majority in Parliament to pass any legislation you need to make your version of Brexit happen in close alliance with The Brexit Party. BoJo's refusal, the die in a ditch shenanigans - it is a means to radicalize the society thus increase their electoral base. I am sure the lawsuit will be used for the same purpose. That's why i doesn't matter...

Ignored

Sep 17, 2019 6:57am — Edited

I know it's boring but the referendum has been blocked to date past the original leave date of March 19.
Which in any event would have been a few years... Losers consent has long been given up by all parties of the time apart from the Conservatives. They have reverted to their original strong beliefs and failed campaign.
Triggering Article 50 isn't carrying out that once in a generation vote, a strong mandate to Leave the EU, including the single market.

Like you say we have to have an election to hammer this home from the people who are actually in charge, even having to do this is wrong to achieve the original once in a generation vote.

Democracy ( literally "rule by people") is a system of government where the citizens exercise power by voting

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Bones.....you and verv are really tiring with this point ad nauseam. The bleeding referendum was 3 and almost half year ago! Parliament triggered article 50 (after the court forced May's Tory govt to actually bother to ask the sovereign!). Both major parties supported it - as they had promised in their manifestos AT THAT TIME. The referendum result was implemented. Then May's Tories screwed up royally. Wasted Cameron's majority. A new Parliament was convened in 2017. DUP gained the key role of a majority provider and held the whole process...

Ignored

Sep 17, 2019 9:03am

I don't mind you having your views at all . There are valid arguments for the Eu only you don't use them.
You prefer to insult the opposition.
I can vote in the Uk existing empire and my vote counts as seen through the referendum. This is an important concept to me.
We don't dream of an ever-larger empire these days, that will be the new kid on the block...

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Another rubbish talk. You think you and your camp are the only ones who have the right to blare your views non stop through the....ahem....correct modern day vehicle? Since you adore the language of rights so much, let me put it in your terms - just as you have the right to say your views I have the full right to argue against them. You don't like that - tough! {quote} Fair enough. What I do not respect, not even the slightest bit, is your push to damage our Union. The majority of EU citizens - a number vastly larger than your paltry 17...

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Sep 17, 2019 9:15am

Conversely, I can vote UKIP into the EU because I don't agree on the direction and that makes no difference whatsoever.
Or
My own government is far too scared to bring any treaty of major change for the people's consent.

Sep 17, 2019 3:55pm

It's fair to say that remain side take this to a personal slight on leave voters. It can range from uneducated to racism with a raft of descriptive words in between including extremist. Let's be frank many leave voters are pensioners.
The debate often isn't on the pros and cons of the EU.
Ross posted last week, probably 5 times in different news threads, sadly us Brits still don't understand about the referendum or that parliament can do what it likes, being sovereign.

I am fully aware of how negative your meaning/context is in this statement.

I am fully aware of it, and I agree. And not just UK Leavers, this is the pattern of all what we call "populists" or "nationalists" across the continent, too.

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Insult is a bit too far, I think - I do like to put forth my arguments in a passionate and colourfull language, and I am not a people pleaser (a major reason why I became an independent trader in a first place)...so, if you feel it is an insult, fair enough. I make no apologies. I do try to abstain from use of expletives, ad hominem attacks, cheap insults and nonsense filler - that's my code.

Ignored

Sep 17, 2019 4:15pm

He's not leading opinion. He's reading it. It exists already from well before the referendum.

"BoJo's refusal, the die in a ditch shenanigans - it is a means to radicalize the society thus increase their electoral base"

Sep 17, 2019 9:24pm — Edited

Somehow I don't think those descriptions in return are at the same level, They basically describe your political position.I'm talking personal attacks of character to prove some kind of point.
You're the one saying Boris is radicalizing society. That's a pretty heavy word right there.

Quoting ekan

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{quote} Corrected to: "BoJo's refusal, the die in a ditch shenanigans - it is a means to further radicalize the society thus increase their electoral base"

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 9:43am

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Arianism was "constitutional" too, justta few decades ago. Law, law, law... the law is don't buy chewing gum! Point: use your brain, don't be a hypocrite to call constitutional when they got you brainwashed

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Shouldn't this be directed at Rossedwards, given that I'm saying it's unconstitutional, whereas as he is saying it is the law?

Sep 16, 2019 10:30am

Quoting barkie

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{quote} How do you know it's unconstitutional, have you read the constitution ?

Ignored

I don't know if it is constitutional, I said it might not be.

In support I quoted the opinion of Professor of Politics at Kings College London who is considered a constitutional expert - one Vernon Bogdanor.

Sep 16, 2019 10:33am

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Just check your brain! Never mind, keep balabbering about lawz... if the law say to go to jail if you chew gum in the street, you follow it no matter what ! Happy life, pal!

Ignored

The law also says that conspiring with a foreign power against the country is treason.

Arguably this what the Remainers did by checking with Brussels if they could get an extension before they conspired to sideline the government.

Sep 16, 2019 2:30pm

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Verv, get your medicine and relax ...you already talking about things like treason ! You're getting too close of paranoia!

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Not just me.

https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1173204887364079617

Sep 16, 2019 9:59am

Quoting verv

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he is the head of state of the UK

Ignored

Wait wait wait.....WHAT?

Prime minister BJ is UK head of state? Was there a coup d'etat this morning or something????????????

Sep 17, 2019 6:17am

Quoting Bones

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That's why it's so dangerous the way you and ross brush the referendum aside. And why Boris will win on that course.

Ignored

Bones.....you and verv are really tiring with this point ad nauseam.

The bleeding referendum was 3 and almost half year ago!

Parliament triggered article 50 (after the court forced May's Tory govt to actually bother to ask the sovereign!). Both major parties supported it - as they had promised in their manifestos AT THAT TIME. The referendum result was implemented.

Then May's Tories screwed up royally. Wasted Cameron's majority. A new Parliament was convened in 2017. DUP gained the key role of a majority provider and held the whole process ransom.

Since you know so much about the British constitution, why don't you recall one of its basic principles - The Parliament cannot bind it's future self. It is its sovereign prerogative. Any law the Parliament has voted can be changed in the future by the Parliament, including constitutional statutes.

Likewise any Party can change their manifesto and platform any time they consider appropriate. Your choice is to dump them and vote for a better one (if you can find one - I think in this case you do).

The whole handling of the Brexit affair has been one unending string of errors and screw ups. Which is what I predicted after I watched the campaign. It was clear to me that those people doing those things are both unfit to govern and, worse, they have neither the capability nor the intentions to build a society-wide consensus for their idea. 52/48 is very very far from that.

The Leavers played a very strong debut, I always grant them that. But in the middle game they made major errors, and ... "We are in the endgame now".... I am afraid prospects are not good.

Sep 17, 2019 8:43am

Quoting Bones

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You have to be demeaning to make an argument against opposing views. That instantly puts your view in a superior place.

Ignored

Another rubbish talk. You think you and your camp are the only ones who have the right to blare your views non stop through the....ahem....correct modern day vehicle? Since you adore the language of rights so much, let me put it in your terms - just as you have the right to say your views I have the full right to argue against them. You don't like that - tough!

Quoting Bones

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All we want is not to be drawn into the superstate and have treaties fly past our eyes with no check or balance by the people.

Ignored

Fair enough. What I do not respect, not even the slightest bit, is your push to damage our Union. The majority of EU citizens - a number vastly larger than your paltry 17 million "yes"es - support EU and they (that is, we, because I am one of them) have a sovereign right to build our union, to strengthen it if we so desire, even to make an army for it if we so desire. Don't like that either? More tough!

I have been thinking....you see....all major states that came out of the Empire over which the sun never set....USA....Canada....Australia....even India....and of course, last but by no means least, the mothership herself, The United Kingdom of Great Britain, comprising of England, Wales and Scottland + assorted small islands, and North Ireland...are federal superstates. All of them! And that of course is perfectly fine until.... we on the continent want to federalize, it suddenly becomes....bad.......undemocratic. What are you afraid of, our lovely island....ahem.....friends, eh?

Sep 17, 2019 11:36am

Quoting Bones

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I don't mind you having your views at all . There are valid arguments for the Eu only you don't use them. You prefer to insult the opposition.

Ignored

Insult is a bit too far, I think - I do like to put forth my arguments in a passionate and colourfull language, and I am not a people pleaser (a major reason why I became an independent trader in a first place)...so, if you feel it is an insult, fair enough. I make no apologies. I do try to abstain from use of expletives, ad hominem attacks, cheap insults and nonsense filler - that's my code.

Sep 17, 2019 4:25pm

Quoting Bones

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It's fair to say that remain side take this to a personal slight on leave voters.

Ignored

And it's fair to say Leavers pay them back in kind, usually instantaneously. They have their own set of insults - lefties, commies, dwelling in a bubble, Remoaners, Libtards (that's in USA, but those who use invariably turn to be pro-Brexit anyway), snowflakes....just off the top of my head. Those begin to fly as soon as anyone makes a comment they even a little disagree with.

"The debate often isn't on the pros and cons of the EU.". Starting with the campaign...here, Facebook, Twitter, newspaper articles...anything.....anywhere. The anti-EU comments were all over the place, all the time. In the run up of the EU elections, any post of EU parliament on my FB newsfeed was immediately swarmed by tens and soon hundreds disparaging posts all of them carrying the Brexit Party avatar. It's not a debate. Debate implies rationality. Most of that stuff....it's just deranged.

So...please. I am not sure you are aware, actually I am a long time user of this site, but never bothered to register....but in the end....what the hell....every "news" article was followed by a deluge of anti-EU comments, often having no relevance to the topic whatsoever. Even there is still a whole bunch of people I call now the EU hater brigade...and you are one of the main players. So please don't act all coy and innocent.

Sep 17, 2019 4:32pm

Quoting Bones

Disliked

He's not leading opinion. He's reading it. It exists already from well before the referendum. "BoJo's refusal, the die in a ditch shenanigans - it is a means to radicalize the society thus increase their electoral base"

Ignored

Corrected to: "BoJo's refusal, the die in a ditch shenanigans - it is a means to further radicalize the society thus increase their electoral base"

Sep 18, 2019 11:22am

Quoting Bones

Disliked

Somehow I don't think those descriptions in return are at the same level, They basically describe your political position.I'm talking personal attacks of character to prove some kind of point. You're the one saying Boris is radicalizing society. That's a pretty heavy word right there. {quote}

Ignored

I was intrigued by something else you said, which is much more interesting to me than insultometry. "There are valid arguments for EU but you don't use them". What are these arguments?

barkie

Sep 16, 2019 9:49am

Quoting verv

Disliked

{quote} Shouldn't this be directed at Rossedwards, given that I'm saying it's unconstitutional, whereas as he is saying it is the law?

Ignored

How do you know it's unconstitutional, have you read the constitution ?

barkie

Sep 16, 2019 11:11am

Quoting verv

Disliked

{quote} I don't know if it is constitutional, I said it might not be. In support I quoted the opinion of Professor of Politics at Kings College London who is considered a constitutional expert - one Vernon Bogdanor.

Ignored

I was hoping you would say "yes I read it" because then I could reply "the Uk doesn't even have a written constitution".

Sep 16, 2019 8:40am

They are going to challenge that law in the courts. Its a law made up by the opposition for political purpose.
The only way it could be made is in a weird world where the opposition is in control of the parliament agenda...and the government do not have a majority.
He gave the correct way to sort this twice and that will be part of the defence.
Don't ask for a source of this information, because it's my own theory. The opposition has enough from his words to instigate the action in court.

Quoting RossEdwards

Disliked

This isnt the story..LoL The story is the the UK PM Johnson publically and to foreign leaders , confirmed his intention to dishonour his legal obligation to abide by UK Law.

Ignored

Sep 16, 2019 8:47am

If the government lose that case he still wins the martyr card. But he won't disobey a court after a precedent is set.

Sep 16, 2019 8:55am

Quoting Goldorak06

Disliked

EU is the hotel California ...

Ignored

Eagles? ...then the Brexit is Woodstock type of nonconformity?...

Not-KPMG

Sep 16, 2019 3:25pm