UK PM Johnson: We Must Leave The EU On October 31

UK PM Johnson: We Must Leave The EU On October 31

UK PM Johnson: We Must Leave The EU On October 31
- We Will Never Institute Checks At The Irish Border
— LiveSquawk (@LiveSquawk) September 9, 2019

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Sep 9, 2019 5:05am

Quoting RossEdwards

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Johnson is now leading a UK Government that has No Mandate to rule. His majority (sic) is MINUS 43. Hes been stripped of the power to force a No-Deal Brexit. He doesn't even have the power to call a GE. He has decimated his own Conservative government creating lasting fissures. Hes been discovered and exposed by members of his own cabinet, to have repeatedly lied on the UKs state of preparedness for a disruptive exit, and on his governments total lack of activity in seeking a W/A resolution. He is has crystalised real fisures between the UK and...

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Have a General Election. Oh wait... the opposition won't allow one to be called as they shout about Johnson destroying democracy.

verv

Sep 11, 2019 5:10am — Edited

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Quoting barkie

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{quote} Great beef beats sovereignty I guess

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Not even close barkie.

A FTA with the US does not mean handing over law-making to the US government. Nor did the Canada FTA with the EU hand Canadian law-making to the EU.

The EU is more than just a free trade agreement, it is a club where law-making is patriated from national parliaments, and where the ultimate goal is a federal EU.

We can have our US beef and eat it.

RossEdwards

Sep 9, 2019 4:58am

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Lets stick to facts..

Johnson is now leading a UK Government that has No Mandate to rule.
His majority (sic) is MINUS 43. Hes been stripped of the power to force a No-Deal Brexit.
He doesn't even have the power to call a GE. He has decimated his own Conservative government creating lasting fissures. Hes been discovered and exposed by members of his own cabinet, to have repeatedly lied on the UKs state of preparedness for a disruptive exit, and on his governments sincerities in seeking a W/A resolution. (ie NIL) He is has crystalised real fisures between the UK and the majority in Scotland. Between UK and the majority in NI. He has even lost the support OF HIS OWN BROTHER.

These are the realities that Traders have to embrace when looking at their strategies to trading the GBP going forward.

RossEdwards

Sep 9, 2019 5:55am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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There are folk here that are sincere and rational, some that are delusional, and even some that are little less than trolls for their own ideological agendas. But If we cant exchange ideas with showing respect, without resorting to ad hominem abuse and anger or confining our comments to issues with direct effect on Markets, we are wasting our time, and bringing these threads and our own cases into disrepute.
Lets calm down.
Just a Thought.

ClinicalEx

Sep 9, 2019 4:29am

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Johnson is a true leader amongst all too many compromised puppets.

ForexSM

Sep 9, 2019 4:59am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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Quite frankly your constant swearing and sniping does not add any value to traders on this forum.

Why on earth you are even posting here is a mystery to me and I believe to most other posters.

If you want to do some good then perhaps you should be looking at your own screwed up country, where corruption is rampant, your government is constantly working against its people by attempting to implement laws that favour ruling party members with criminal convictions for embezzlement of EU funds.

I currently live in Romania and after 10 years living here, your country is no better than it was 10 years ago.

So crawl back under your rock and STFU.

turnip15

Sep 9, 2019 5:53am

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The sooner we leave the EU the better. So we can have more training courses for UK Doctors and other health professionals, plus more UK apprenticeships for UK nationals instead of poaching already qualified people from the EU which has the effect of reducing availability or access to professionals, technicians etc in their own countries.
In short -the UK would have to stop stealing already qualified people from EU countries and spend some money on training their own.

RossEdwards

Sep 9, 2019 6:01am

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Quoting turnip15

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The sooner we leave the EU the better. So we can have more training courses for UK Doctors and other health professionals, plus more UK apprenticeships for UK nationals instead of poaching already qualified people from the EU which has the effect of reducing availability or access to professionals, technicians etc in their own countries. In short -the UK would have to stop stealing already qualified people from EU countries and spend some money on training their own.

Ignored

Of course they wouldnt. Its just that the doctor, nurse and health professional shortfall will be filled from India, Pakistan and SE Asia rather than France Germany Poland and the balkans. Its already a declared part of the new government immigration policy.. LoL

Ross88

Sep 11, 2019 5:03am

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Quoting barkie

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{quote} Great beef beats sovereignty I guess

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How will the UK lose its sovereignty to America?? can you expand on this idea please

Degolep

Sep 9, 2019 4:26am

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Make an alert in your calendar so you won't forget that you have to leave.

Huntpips

Sep 9, 2019 4:57am

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Obeying the referendum is the key, power belong to the people and the people have spoken.

TudorIoan

Sep 9, 2019 5:58am

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Quoting RossEdwards

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{quote} There are folk here that are sincere and rational, some that are delusional, and even some that are little less than trolls for their own ideological agendas. But If we cant exchange ideas with showing respect, without resorting to ad hominem abuse and anger or confining our comments to issues with direct effect on Markets, we are wasting our time, and bringing these threads and our own cases into disrepute. Lets calm down. Just a Thought.

Ignored

They are insulting your intelligence, Ross!
Good for you if you just can ignore them

RossEdwards

Sep 9, 2019 6:11am

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Respect. It takes man to row back and apologize.
And we all have our bad "Hair Days".. LoL..
Im not here long but youre the first person Ive seen behave with honour on these threads.

Now lets ALL fkuc off , get back to work and find a new thread to exchange views on.

RossEdwards

Sep 10, 2019 2:18pm — Edited

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Quoting verv

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{quote} We. Weren’t. Asked. We should have been, and according to you, it needs 66% for any change.

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The United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum was a (advisory) public vote that took place on 5 June 1975, on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities which was principally the European Economic Community (the Common Market) as it was known at the time. At the time the UK had already been a member of the EC for two and a half years since joining back on 1 January 1973 and was the first ever national referendum of its kind to be held in the country.*

Yes a super-majority SHOULD have been the threshold for that 1975 advisory referendum.
And had those criteria been required in that referendum it would have confirmed the public approval for Parliaments decision to join the EU. As I recall was 67% for and 33% against.
*Wiki extract.

Ironic aint it..

Skracor247

Sep 10, 2019 10:42am — Edited

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} This is a lame fallacy, scarecrow! You assumed aprioric conflict, wolves against sheep just to work your trolling And you blame me I call you guys stupid

Ignored

Binary questions like Leave/Stay put to the masses in a Pass/Fail referendum. What else can we Pass/Fail? Ahem, mob rule anyone? By definition, democracy is mob rule...
Constitutional Democracy may have a mandate to protect the individual(probably self-imposed) but how long does that last in the hands of corrupt men?

Doesn't matter to me what you call me. One day you say I'm not stupid, the next, stupid. I'm not easily offended either way.

Perhaps I am a Monarchist, certainly not an anarchist, surely somewhat capitalist, like to think I am a realist, like to be a conversationalist.

Nah! I think I like Theocracy! But probably not what you will think when I say that...

I'm having fun today guys! Thanks!

verv

Sep 10, 2019 8:39am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Please, spare me wittha law {quote} In Milan, Italy, it is illegal for citizens to frown in public—unless they’re at a funeral or visiting someone in the hospital. It’s illegal to chew gum in Singapore. In fact, no gum is bought or sold here. The law is said to be in place to keep public spaces clean. In Mexico, it is illegal for bicyclists to lift their feet off the pedals while riding as this might cause them to lose control of the bike. ...

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So you won't have a problem then if Boris refuses an extension, unless he gets 66% of the Commons vote

verv

Sep 10, 2019 9:30am — Edited

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OK, then you should have no problem accepting the EU referendum result.

Remember we never had a vote on being a member of the EU, we had a vote on the EEC membership, but not any of the EU treaties enacted since 1975.

So unless any referendum on EU treaties or membership gets 66% of the public vote, then we should not be a member of the EU because this is the first time we were asked.

Since these are your own rules you should have no problem with them.

verv

Sep 11, 2019 3:55am

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Quoting RossEdwards

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{quote} The United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum was a (advisory) public vote that took place on 5 June 1975, on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities which was principally the European Economic Community (the Common Market) as it was known at the time. At the time the UK had already been a member of the EC for two and a half years since joining back on 1 January 1973 and was the first ever national referendum of its kind to be held in the country.* Yes a super-majority SHOULD have been...

Ignored

That information is correct.

All we required was a similar confirmatory referendum for membership of the EU, or referendums on the many treaty changes that came after the 1975 EEC membership.

The Irish government put every treaty change that resulted in an amendment to their constitution to the public:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Had such referendums been put to the UK, with a supermajority required, it is possible we would not be a member of the European Union.

The lack of a referendum is not the fault of the EU but entirely the responsibility of the UK government who over several decades signed away our nation's sovereignty without consent.

If one views the 2016 EU referendum as it should be viewed, our first chance to have a say on EU membership, then we fell well short of that 66% necessary to confirm that the public approved our membership of the EU.

xy76

Sep 9, 2019 1:03pm

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Quoting ForexSM

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{quote} Quite frankly your constant swearing and sniping does not add any value to traders on this forum. Why on earth you are even posting here is a mystery to me and I believe to most other posters. If you want to do some good then perhaps you should be looking at your own screwed up country, where corruption is rampant, your government is constantly working against its people by attempting to implement laws that favour ruling party members with criminal convictions for embezzlement of EU funds. I currently live in Romania and after 10 years living...

Ignored

Perhaps Romania did not get any better during past 10 years because you have been there?

nbfx

Sep 9, 2019 4:20pm

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Quoting NotBoris

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Let's do more trading ideas and less bickering all. Calm down, Brexit is a pain in the back side but let's concentrate on trading and get pips while we can.

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Said by someone with such a highly political handle...?

nbfx

Sep 10, 2019 5:36am

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Quoting NotBoris

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{quote} Politics is different from bickering towards other traders........ O or do I forgot, when some prefer to bicker than to openly discuss? Happy trading

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Get a less obviously politically biased handle and your words here might carry more weight..

Or put another way -

methinks the lady doth protest too much!

nbfx

Sep 11, 2019 5:22am

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Quoting barkie

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{quote} And now you have to sign up to US food regulation and follow it to the letter to get a UK-US trade deal without the opportunity to give any consent via a referendum, this is what happens when you're not very high on the pecking order.

Ignored

It is a whole different thing to trade freely with another as opposed to being part of an ever-increasing political union. Surely you have the wit to comprehend such a simple thing?

Thor33

Sep 11, 2019 2:32am

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Quoting NotBoris

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{quote} Agreed, I traded GBP when there is BIG events coming in, like last week's first ruling about NO DEAL. Am waiting to see if there is any result on 17th Oct, now 18th Oct - whoever changes the goal post to 18th Oct from the EU summit. 31st Oct onwards will be pretty much fundamental...one only hopes. Its either BIG crash South (Brexit), North (Delayed, On Hold, GE) or swing (more uncertainties lol)......... the last is what we all hates for trading. But heyho, trading is never a straight line!

Ignored

because of that i dont trade gbp at all . i had open 100 dollar for not leaving eu on brexit vote in 2015 and i saw i had 300 pip win before brexit declare and i sleeped i et no t leave eu . tommorrow i awaked and bam i saw big sell off like wiss bank rat and 100 dollar gone lol if i bet otherside of coin i had 1000 dollar after 6 hours lol right now i focus on aud and nzd for having safe pips

NotBoris

Sep 10, 2019 1:07am

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Quoting Thor33

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{quote} Best idea is not trading GBP AT ALL. i trade gbp after no deal or deal brexit .

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Agreed, I traded GBP when there is BIG events coming in, like last week's first ruling about NO DEAL. Am waiting to see if there is any result on 17th Oct, now 18th Oct - whoever changes the goal post to 18th Oct

from the EU summit.

31st Oct onwards will be pretty much fundamental...one only hopes. Its either BIG crash South (Brexit), North (Delayed, On Hold, GE) or swing (more uncertainties lol)......... the last is what we all hates for trading.

But heyho, trading is never a straight line!

Trader#19E1

Sep 9, 2019 5:17am

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Quoting Ghass1234

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{quote} Spoken to leave but not without a deal . are u illusunal or what

Ignored

Are you slow in the head or just have no clue what you are talking about?

The ballot paper was very clear and provided a binary choice -

Do you want to remain a member of the EU?
or
Do you want to leave the EU?

Tell me, where specifically is deal or no deal mentioned in the leave option?

Ghass1234

Sep 9, 2019 4:09am — Edited

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then work for a fuckin deal, Hopfully no one is selling pound now

TudorIoan

Sep 9, 2019 5:09am

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Quoting verv

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{quote} Have a General Election. Oh wait... the opposition won't allow one to be called as they shout about Johnson destroying democracy.

Ignored

For the major matters the vote must be representative, like a majority of two thirds or three quarters.
Stop balabbering nonsense about "dem0cracy", "the people", ...it's just half of the people!
...mostly fishermen

TudorIoan

Sep 9, 2019 6:03am

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Ok, ok, sorry everybody!
But why can't everybody just post wrong but moderate stands like post #17 turnip15 member here ?! That's not so offensive!

rockit

Sep 9, 2019 5:25am

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Why is BoJo not stressing the fact that it is the EU that is blocking (aka backstop) a deal. EU (Germany) does not want the UK to leave and the tool of choice is the backstop. Drop backstop and a deal can be signed by tomorrow. Nothing is there to be done by the UK. Three years have past, there is no point in extending the same any longer @opposition.

NotBoris

Sep 9, 2019 1:31pm

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Let's do more trading ideas and less bickering all.

Calm down, Brexit is a pain in the back side but let's concentrate on trading and get pips while we can.

Aldro

Sep 9, 2019 5:56am

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UK PM Johnson: We Must Leave The EU On October 31

If the current balance of probability was tipped in favour of this outcome then GBP would be falling, which it isn't.

Dutchy Daxy

Sep 9, 2019 5:26am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Oh, STFU, another scabby toad get offence... I'm sick of you nervous losers! You don't get anything, do you ...I don't give a fck for Romania ...I just go with the world laughing at a dead but still arrogant empire

Ignored

I'm sick of you nervous losers!

If it really makes you that sick, go somewhere else where you hopefully get better.

Talk normal language. Think of your heart!

TudorIoan

Sep 9, 2019 5:33am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Nope. The vote wasn't representative. It was like John voted against Mary to spend all the money on scotch, not for the children. But John have a little John between his legs which makes it 50+1! So, the money goes for the booze, because the 'majority'

Ignored

This is no democracy. This is ridiculous bad taste show, a circus of a divided nation!

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 12:41am

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Quoting verv

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{quote} Remainers: Stop the coup, protect democracy. Johnson: OK lets have a general election Remainers: No.

Ignored

Again, for the major national matters the vote must be representative, like a majority of two thirds or three quarters... something.
Please, any other way than representativity is insulting and against minimal logic.

Because non-representativeness is like two guys voting against each other:
- John (51%) we say fck the neighbours!
- Mary (49%) we say let's stick together with our neighbours, we're stronger and better if we find a way to get along!
The point is not what they say, is not the substance of the argument !
The point is that none of them can say we !

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 3:52am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Again, for the major national matters the vote must be representative, like a majority of two thirds or three quarters... something. Please, any other way than representativity is insulting and against minimal logic. Because non-representativeness is like two guys voting against each other: - John (51%) we say fck the neighbours! - Mary (49%) we say let's stick together with our neighbours, we're stronger and better if we find a way to get along! The point is not what they say, is not the substance of the argument ! The point is that none...

Ignored

That's why Brexit is wrong. It's simply not legitimate.

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 5:26am

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Quoting verv

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{quote} Leaving the EU is not one of those matters. Fact.

Ignored

Bravo, you missed exactly the point!
It doesn't matter the substance of the controversy, it matters only the legitimacy which empowers decision.
Never mind, if you miss the basics you're diqualified by default.

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 6:00am

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Quoting verv

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{quote} I didn't miss the point. I'm saying you are wrong, as a matter of law. I also believe you are wrong as a matter of opinion.

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Please, spare me wittha law

Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote}Why did the chicken cross the road? Who knows? There, it’s illegal for a chicken to cross the road! {image}

Ignored

In Milan, Italy, it is illegal for citizens to frown in public—unless they’re at a funeral or visiting someone in the hospital.
It’s illegal to chew gum in Singapore. In fact, no gum is bought or sold here. The law is said to be in place to keep public spaces clean.
In Mexico, it is illegal for bicyclists to lift their feet off the pedals while riding as this might cause them to lose control of the bike.

Use your head, buddy!

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 9:02am — Edited

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Quoting verv

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{quote} So you won't have a problem then if Boris refuses an extension, unless he gets 66% of the Commons vote

Ignored

Hehehe, ok, I would accept anything voted with 66% !
Yeah, even if you guys put in your constitution to pardon passional assassination

...Italians did some!

Point is, I do trust the Britons' common sense as an overwhelming majority. Seriously.
That would be the ultimate authority ...whatever they decide..

Bones

Sep 10, 2019 9:53am

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Yea it's obvious he doesn't care, apart from his brother maybe.
Not saying this has gone totally to plan but he set out to force an election off bat.
No point in having a majority, if those people don't support the policy.

An election was and is now the only way forward.

Quoting RossEdwards

Disliked

Lets stick to facts.. Johnson is now leading a UK Government that has No Mandate to rule. His majority (sic) is MINUS 43. Hes been stripped of the power to force a No-Deal Brexit. He doesn't even have the power to call a GE. He has decimated his own Conservative government creating lasting fissures. Hes been discovered and exposed by members of his own cabinet, to have repeatedly lied on the UKs state of preparedness for a disruptive exit, and on his governments sincerities in seeking a W/A resolution. (ie NIL) He is has crystalised real fisures...

Ignored

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 10:16am — Edited

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Quoting verv

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OK, then you should have no problem accepting the EU referendum result. Remember we never had a vote on being a member of the EU, we had a vote on the EEC membership, but not any of the EU treaties enacted since 1975. So unless any referendum on EU treaties or membership gets 66% of the public vote, then we should not be a member of the EU because this is the first time we were asked. Since these are your own rules you should have no problem with them.

Ignored

It's a tacit consent, Verv. No vote required.
As long as you already benefited of trading agreements.
And you very well know that, unless you play the hypo.

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 10:26am

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Quoting Skracor247

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{quote} Most will miss the dangers of Democracy. Ten animals voted on what to eat. Six were wolves and four were sheep. Guess who won the vote?

Ignored

This is a lame fallacy, scarecrow!

You assumed aprioric conflict, wolves against sheep just to work your trolling

And you blame me I call you guys stupid

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 11:03am

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Quoting Skracor247

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Quoting TudorIoan

Disliked

{quote} This is a lame fallacy, scarecrow! You assumed aprioric conflict, wolves against sheep just to work your trolling And you blame me I call you guys stupid Binary questions like Leave/Stay put to the masses in a Pass/Fail referendum. What else can we Pass/Fail? Ahem, mob rule anyone? By definition, democracy is mob rule... Constitutional Democracy may have a mandate to protect the individual(probably self-imposed) but how long does that last in the hands of corrupt men? Doesn't matter to

Ignored

...

Ignored

Sorry, Scary, I do respect people who can doubt themselves!
Come on, if democracy is the mob's rule, then the mafia would be the expression of the perfect applicated democracy

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 11:45am

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Quoting Skracor247

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{quote} Nah. Mafia is always in the minority. They are the sheep! Totally Joking! I am saying I wouldn't trust the Majority or the Minority. A group of people will ALWAYS make the wrong decision at some point... Unless they are perfect... Know anybody?

Ignored

right!

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 1:37pm

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Quoting verv

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{quote} We. Weren’t. Asked. We should have been, and according to you, it needs 66% for any change.

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You just can't play innocent after you had your benefits like UK never had a vote on being a member of the EU.

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 2:17pm — Edited

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Quoting verv

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{quote} You just can’t play dumb. We voted into the EEC, we had no vote on treaty changes that lead to the EU. The EU has benefits and negatives, we deserved a vote on the both. This is first time we have been asked about any changes since 1975, by your own rules those changes should have required a 66% majority. Leave wins whatever way you cook it.

Ignored

Dude, Europe had sex with you after 1975.
And you got paid for that!!!
Accepting those trading benefits is your tacit consent, it doesn't need an explicit vote... never mind the representativity ratio because the matter had already been settled (as long as it was producing fruitage)
You took "the money" and now you say you've been raped ?!?

TudorIoan

Sep 10, 2019 2:24pm

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Dude, Europe had sex with you after 1975. And you got paid for that!!! Accepting those trading benefits is your tacit consent, it doesn't need an explicit vote... no matter the ratio... You took "the money" and now you say you've been raped ?!?

Ignored

BTW, the 2016 vote was actually about if you weather like it or not Europe to keep having sex with you!

Now, if you dare to express an option you need representativity (66%)

TudorIoan

Sep 11, 2019 4:32am — Edited

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Quoting verv

Disliked

{quote} From 1975 until the mid 80s, the EEC stayed basically as a customs unions. From the mid-1980s onwards treaty changes morphed the EEC to the EU, handing powers from Westminster to Brussels without consent of the public. In summary. Yes we had sex with the EU, but there was no consent for that sex, which makes it RAPE!

Ignored

...Ooooh, you, the public... like your government is from other planet !! Pathetic argument !!

...or like only the government alone benefited of those trade agreements

ok, 66% should do ...but I hope history will never show again a nation ruled by the street people...
Anyway, there are always close minded radicals around making lotta fuss about sovregnity when actually their thinking never goes far than a tribal society.
They just cry against 'globalism' because they depend only on the fish they catch

Hypocrits, losers, half-witted right wing pissed losers...

See you next time when your leaders will beg again to join us ...sovereigns!

Byeee!

Bones

Sep 11, 2019 2:57pm — Edited

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You're the one so confused. Also while able to digest information, I would argue pretty thick practically.

A person who doesn't know the difference between legal sovereignty of the parliament
and
The actual sovereignty of the people.

The idea that Members of Parliament, hold ultimate sovereignty on the grounds of their superior wisdom and can, therefore, oppose a legally expressed majority vote is a strange perversion of history. It also flies in the face of common sense: who could seriously claim that MPs as a body are wiser than the general public? As we are seeing, such a claim in a democratic age is a dangerous and divisive political affront, often accompanied by overtly insulting dismissal of the electorate as stupid, backward, racist etc. This is undermining our whole political and constitutional system.

"The basic political theory of our time is that only democratic institutions can carry ultimate authority. This is not specified in law, but no acceptable law can go against it. Even though formally speaking referendums are said to be ‘advisory’, they cannot legitimately be overruled."

"We can only deduce the advisory status of referendums by implication, from the premise ‘Parliament is sovereign’. But which Act establishes parliamentary sovereignty? We might reasonably hold that since the People elect members of the House of Commons directly, by binding votes, and of the House of Lords indirectly (via elected members of the Commons), the People are sovereign."

"The traditional view of manifestos, a majority of sitting members of Parliament are mandated to leave the EU, understood as leaving the single market and the customs union. But the 2016 referendum was also in itself a mandate, of an extremely clear kind. Just as the Salisbury Compromise had force because it recognized a political reality – the power of a modern democratic vote – despite the fact that in strict law manifestos had no special significance, so the power of the vote in June 2016 has created a mandate for Parliament, despite the fact that in strict law it was only advisory."

Quoting RossEdwards

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IMHO Questions regarding sovereignty are way out of order to be even introduced on these threads. 90% of folk have no clue about it except as an emotive flag waving term. introduced by some folk to allow them to inflame disscusion with talk about Vassal States and other equally emotive nonsense. It also unprofitable to discus in the sense that the arguments largely fall on allegations that the EU is moving towards federalisation. Which is as ludicrous as the "Turkey going to be a member" scare sham... and totally ignores the ground swell...

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Attached Image

Bones

Sep 11, 2019 3:41pm

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Stop telling us from Spain? We don't know about our own country thicky law quoter....How many times do you want to say we don't know? and you do

Quoting RossEdwards

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IMHO Questions regarding sovereignty are way out of order to be even introduced on these threads. 90% of folk have no clue about it except as an emotive flag waving term. introduced by some folk to allow them to inflame disscusion with talk about Vassal States and other equally emotive nonsense. It also unprofitable to discus in the sense that the arguments largely fall on allegations that the EU is moving towards federalisation. Which is as ludicrous as the "Turkey going to be a member" scare sham... and totally ignores the ground swell...

Ignored

turnip15

Sep 9, 2019 6:08am

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Quoting RossEdwards

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{quote} Of course they wouldnt. Its just that the doctor, nurse and health professional shortfall will be filled from India, Pakistan and SE Asia rather than France Germany Poland and the balkans. Its already a declared part of the new government immigration policy.. LoL

Ignored

I'll get my coat

RossEdwards

Sep 9, 2019 9:32am

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Quoting Maxthetrader

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... get OUT of the EU. Deals can always wait until AFTER Brexit. Better deals can be made then.

Ignored

I do think that you actually believe what you said here.
Nothing more to be said.

Im sure you are a brilliant tech-trader. Have a great trading day.

RossEdwards

Sep 11, 2019 6:07am

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IMHO Questions regarding sovereignty are way out of order to be even introduced on these threads.
90% of folk have no clue about it except as an emotive flag waving term. introduced by some folk to allow them to inflame disscusion with talk about Vassal States and other equally emotive nonsense. It also unprofitable to discus in the sense that the arguments largely fall on allegations that the EU is moving towards federalisation. Which is as ludicrous as the "Turkey going to be a member" scare sham... and totally ignores the ground swell among the other 27 against this path. It also totally ignores UKs (if still a member) power both legal and political to shape and influence how the EU develops.
I can think of at least 12 EU countries in which that bird will never fly. So all a bit theoretical?

What is worth discussing and very pertinent to Fx and the GBP is how viable the Post N0-Deal brexit UK really is economically. There is a great lack of thought out detail and silence on this from all parties.

Just a thought.

Skracor247

Sep 10, 2019 9:57am

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Quoting verv

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OK, then you should have no problem accepting the EU referendum result. Remember we never had a vote on being a member of the EU, we had a vote on the EEC membership, but not any of the EU treaties enacted since 1975. So unless any referendum on EU treaties or memberships gets 66% of the public vote, then we should not be a member of the EU because this is the first time we were asked. Since these are your own rules you should have no problem with them.

Ignored

Most will miss the dangers of Democracy. Ten animals voted on what to eat. Six were wolves and four were sheep. Guess who won the vote?

If the British wish to preserve their identity as a country they will have to leave the EU. Look no further than the history of the US. The States used to be individuals as a part of an 'economic union'. Eventually, the politicians and a few of the more powerful states began to increase the power of the central governing body. Then some states tried to leave the 'Union'. Then the American Civil War happened.

Now states powers are degraded day by day with very little recourse. A cautionary tale...

Skracor247

Sep 10, 2019 11:19am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote}{quote} Sorry, Scary, I do respect people who can doubt themselves! Come on, if democracy is the mob's rule, then the mafia would be the expression of the perfect applicated democracy

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Nah. Mafia is always in the minority. They are the sheep! Totally Joking!

I am saying I wouldn't trust the Majority or the Minority. A group of people will ALWAYS make the wrong decision at some point... Unless they are perfect... Know anybody?

verv

Sep 9, 2019 9:32am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} For the major matters the vote must be representative, like a majority of two thirds or three quarters. Stop balabbering nonsense about "dem0cracy", "the people", ...it's just half of the people! ...mostly fishermen

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Remainers: Stop the coup, protect democracy.

Johnson: OK lets have a general election

Remainers: No.

verv

Sep 10, 2019 5:17am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Again, for the major national matters the vote must be representative, like a majority of two thirds or three quarters... something. Please, any other way than representativity is insulting and against minimal logic. Because non-representativeness is like two guys voting against each other: - John (51%) we say fck the neighbours! - Mary (49%) we say let's stick together with our neighbours, we're stronger and better if we find a way to get along! The point is not what they say, is not the substance of the argument ! The point is that none...

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Leaving the EU is not one of those matters. Fact.

verv

Sep 10, 2019 5:29am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Bravo, you missed exactly the point! It doesn't matter the substance of the controversy, it matters only the legitimacy which empowers decision. Never mind, if you miss the basics you're diqualified by default.

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I didn't miss the point.
I'm saying you are wrong, as a matter of law.
I also believe you are wrong as a matter of opinion.

verv

Sep 10, 2019 9:59am

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Quoting Skracor247

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{quote} Most will miss the dangers of Democracy. Ten animals voted on what to eat. Six were wolves and four were sheep. Guess who won the vote?

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That's not a democracy, that's mob-rule. Constitutional democracies have rights that protect individuals from the tyranny of the majority.

verv

Sep 10, 2019 12:58pm

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} It's a tacit consent, Verv. No vote required. As long as you already benefited of trading agreements. And you very well know that, unless you play the hypo.

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We. Weren’t. Asked.

We should have been, and according to you, it needs 66% for any change.

verv

Sep 10, 2019 2:06pm

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} You just can't play innocent after you had your benefits like UK never had a vote on being a member of the EU.

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And you just can’t play dumb.

We voted into the EEC, we had no vote on the treaty changes that lead to the EU.

The EU has both benefits and negatives, we deserved a vote on both.

This is the first time we have been asked about any changes since 1975.

By your own rules those changes should have required a 66% majority to be implemented.

Leave wins whatever way you fudge the rules.

verv

Sep 11, 2019 3:58am

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Quoting TudorIoan

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{quote} Dude, Europe had sex with you after 1975. And you got paid for that!!! Accepting those trading benefits is your tacit consent, it doesn't need an explicit vote... never mind the representativity ratio because the matter had already been settled (as long as it was producing fruitage) You took "the money" and now you say you've been raped ?!?

Ignored

From 1975 until the mid 80s, the EEC stayed basically as a customs unions.

From the mid-1980s onwards treaty changes morphed the EEC to the EU, handing powers from Westminster to Brussels without consent of the public.

In summary. Yes we had sex with the EU, but there was no consent for that sex, which makes it RAPE!

verv

Sep 11, 2019 4:41am

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Quoting barkie

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{quote} And now you have to sign up to US food regulation and follow it to the letter to get a UK-US trade deal without the opportunity to give any consent via a referendum, this is what happens when you're not very high on the pecking order.

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We don't have to do anything. And btw, I have no problems with US food regulations. I have been to America a lot, and I survived each time. They have the best beef in the world. They are way ahead of the EU in terms of agritech.

verv

Sep 11, 2019 8:28am

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Quoting RossEdwards

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IMHO Questions regarding sovereignty are way out of order to be even introduced on these threads. 90% of folk have no clue about it except as an emotive flag waving term. introduced by some folk to allow them to inflame disscusion with talk about Vassal States and other equally emotive nonsense. It also unprofitable to discus in the sense that the arguments largely fall on allegations that the EU is moving towards federalisation. Which is as ludicrous as the "Turkey going to be a member" scare sham... and totally ignores the ground swell...

Ignored

First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.

Nick.

Sep 9, 2019 1:49pm

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Countries managed to work with each other for thousands of years and I'm pretty sure they'll find an away to continue to work with each other whether Brexit or not. I think that you should give the people what they voted for and they will get it. There's no going back. However, I can understand why some people don't want to go out without a deal. Thers a lot of business with their life on the line and it's very hard to decide who can stay on and who might have to go out of business. Its a huge responsibility and a big decision to make and I hope more people will try to understand that.

barkie

Sep 11, 2019 4:29am

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Quoting verv

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{quote} From 1975 until the mid 80s, the EEC stayed basically as a customs unions. From the mid-1980s onwards treaty changes morphed the EEC to the EU, handing powers from Westminster to Brussels without consent of the public. In summary. Yes we had sex with the EU, but there was no consent for that sex, which makes it RAPE!

Ignored

And now you have to sign up to US food regulation and follow it to the letter to get a UK-US trade deal without the opportunity to give any consent via a referendum, this is what happens when you're not very high on the pecking order.

barkie

Sep 11, 2019 4:56am

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Quoting verv

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{quote} We don't have to do anything. And btw, I have no problems with US food regulations. I have been to America a lot, and I survived each time. They have the best beef in the world. They are way ahead of the EU in terms of agritech.

Ignored

Great beef beats sovereignty I guess

barkie

Sep 11, 2019 5:26am

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Quoting Ross88

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{quote} How will the UK lose its sovereignty to America?? can you expand on this idea please

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Let's stick to food regulation (because the UK will lose sovereignty in every area). The US made abundantly clear that it has to follow US food regulation and that any changes to this regulation will have to flow into UK law without amendments. Otherwise no deal.

That means that the US will send changes to the UK which will then be implemented in UK law without the possibility to reject it or change anything. Sounds familiar right because that's what now happens with the EU regulation you get from us. With the difference that you're part of the council/EP so you actually have a say in things before it goes to parliament. The US of course will not give a vassal that opportunity.

So actually you have currently more sovereignty than you will get after Brexit, oh the irony.

Thor33

Sep 9, 2019 2:19pm

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Quoting NotBoris

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Let's do more trading ideas and less bickering all. Calm down, Brexit is a pain in the back side but let's concentrate on trading and get pips while we can.

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Best idea is not trading GBP AT ALL. i trade gbp after no deal or deal brexit .

NotBoris

Sep 10, 2019 12:59am

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Quoting nbfx

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{quote} Said by someone with such a highly political handle...?

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Politics is different from bickering towards other traders........

O or do I forgot, when some prefer to bicker than to openly discuss?

Happy trading

NotBoris

Sep 10, 2019 9:51am

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Quoting nbfx

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{quote} Get a less obviously politically biased handle and your words here might carry more weight.. Or put another way - methinks the lady doth protest too much!

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Know what, you are more than welcome just to ignore my posts just like I do to impolite closed minded traders

Adios!

TudorIoan

Sep 9, 2019 5:05am

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Quoting Huntpips

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Obeying the referendum is the key, power belong to the people and the people have spoken.

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Nope. The vote wasn't representative.
It was like John voted against Mary to spend all the money on scotch, not for the children.
But John have a little John between his legs which makes it 50+1!
So, the money goes for the booze, because the 'majority'

TudorIoan

Sep 9, 2019 5:16am

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Quoting ForexSM

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{quote} Quite frankly your constant swearing and sniping does not add any value to traders on this forum. Why on earth you are even posting here is a mystery to me and I believe to most other posters. If you want to do some good then perhaps you should be looking at your own screwed up country, where corruption is rampant, your government is constantly working against its people by attempting to implement laws that favour ruling party members with criminal convictions for embezzlement of EU funds. I currently live in Romania and after 10 years living...

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Oh, STFU, another scabby toad get offence... I'm sick of you nervous losers!
You don't get anything, do you ...I don't give a fck for Romania

...I just go with the world laughing at a dead but still arrogant empire

hesron

Sep 9, 2019 6:36am

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I'm sure what the UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said will happen 31 October 2019 ...

Bones

Sep 13, 2019 3:59am

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yea short lol
btw that's the mildest outcome I can think of
It went down because its not worth voting in a nutshell

Quoting LaBoca

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Cerveza? {image}

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RossEdwards

Sep 9, 2019 9:38am — Edited

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Quoting verv

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{quote}
remainers: Stop the coup, protect democracy.
Johnson: Ok lets have a general election
remainers: No.

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traders: Cut the political propaganda

LaBoca

Sep 13, 2019 3:39am

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Cerveza?

Attached Image (click to enlarge)

Click to Enlarge

Name: Bones092019.png
Size: 356 KB

TMR

Sep 9, 2019 9:12am

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Let her go, let her go. Another quaalude, she´ll love me again.

Sep 9, 2019 3:56am

you will not,forget

Sep 9, 2019 9:10am

Just get OUT of the EU. Deals can always wait until AFTER Brexit. Better deals can be made then.

Huntpips

Sep 9, 2019 5:10am

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Quoting Ghass1234

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{quote} Spoken to leave but not without a deal . are u illusunal or what

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But there is a deal before EU, why are they beating the bush?

ferojh

Sep 9, 2019 4:40am

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How Leave The EU On October 31?

Sywa

Sep 9, 2019 2:28pm

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He could be a secret agent sent...LOL

bshappens

Sep 9, 2019 7:05am

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Quoting turnip15

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The sooner we leave the EU the better. So we can have more training courses for UK Doctors and other health professionals, plus more UK apprenticeships for UK nationals instead of poaching already qualified people from the EU which has the effect of reducing availability or access to professionals, technicians etc in their own countries. In short -the UK would have to stop stealing already qualified people from EU countries and spend some money on training their own.

Ignored

No worries there. It seems like it could turn out to be exactly as you wish.

Quoting RossEdwards

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{quote} Of course they wouldnt. Its just that the doctor, nurse and health professional shortfall will be filled from India, Pakistan and SE Asia rather than France Germany Poland and the balkans. Its already a declared part of the new government immigration policy.. LoL

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And... that also.