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Trading Journal (only my take)

  • #81
  • Oct 15, 2017 7:09am Oct 15, 2017 7:09am
Banks manoeuvre the market. As traders, we don't know for sure what their real intention is or more importantly, when!.

They want best price obviously, and they have the means to get the "herd" to follow their moves.

The vast majority will do exactly that, the banks will likely switch when enough are on board and price is ripe.

That's the basic essence of what actually happens.

Indicator driven systems in my view are thus doomed to fail in the long run, and the fewer the indicators used then the chance of success increases, and it is for that reason (mainly) that tap is crucial, and not just pa as most tend to call it.

When navigating somewhere for example, longitude and latitude will pin point through triangulation where to steer. In other words just 2 pieces of information does the job perfectly without complication.

The same philosophy can be applied to trading, ie get 2 reference points (tap in my case), and let that do the steering. I do use a third parameter btw, which is a ma, and a t/l on occasions to confirm the steering, but everyone will of course see things their own way. It makes no difference to me whatever anyone else sees, I know where I want to go. and I steer towards it.

As I've said before, I don't bother teaching in these forums, (that happens to be something I do for relatives and close friends outside of FF), but the concept is as I've said nevertheless.
  • #82
  • Oct 15, 2017 8:03am Oct 15, 2017 8:03am
Quoting Landline
Banks manoeuvre the market. As traders, we don't know for sure what their real intention is or more importantly, when!. They want best price obviously, and they have the means to get the "herd" to follow their moves. The vast majority will do exactly that, the banks will likely switch when enough are on board and price is ripe. That's the basic essence of what actually happens. Indicator driven systems in my view are thus doomed to fail in the long run, and the fewer the indicators used then the chance of success increases, and it is for that reason...
"switch when enough are on board and price is ripe."
How do they know when both of these happen? Can they know this without having a method and pure actual trading orders (order book) with them?

"I know where I want to go."
Do you have pre determined prices for buying or selling and exiting trades? Do you need to see the price action when price gets to the level where you want? If you need to see PA when it gets to the point of decision to buy or sell then how can you call your analysis complete when you have to look at price when it reaches a point you want it to reach.
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #83
  • Oct 15, 2017 8:17am Oct 15, 2017 8:17am
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} "switch when enough are on board and price is ripe." How do they know when both of these happen? Can they know this without having a method and pure actual trading orders (order book) with them? "I know where I want to go." Do you have pre determined prices for buying or selling and exiting trades? Do you need to see the price action when price gets to the level where you want? If you need to see PA when it gets to the point of decision to buy or sell then how can you call your analysis complete when you have to look at price when it reaches...
I have outlined cause and effect... tap is my solution. You need to read the whole context to get the full picture. Then apply whatever you personally need to take a high probability trade.
  • #84
  • Oct 15, 2017 9:05am Oct 15, 2017 9:05am
Quoting Landline
{quote} I have outlined cause and effect... tap is my solution. You need to read the whole context to get the full picture. Then apply whatever you personally need to take a high probability trade.
Does this mean that I have to read the whole thread again?
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
  • #85
  • Oct 15, 2017 9:35am Oct 15, 2017 9:35am
Anyone with comprehension limitations should refrain from posting here.
  • #86
  • Oct 15, 2017 2:14pm Oct 15, 2017 2:14pm
Quoting maverick2017
{quote} "switch when enough are on board and price is ripe." How do they know when both of these happen? Can they know this without having a method and pure actual trading orders (order book) with them? "I know where I want to go." Do you have pre determined prices for buying or selling and exiting trades? Do you need to see the price action when price gets to the level where you want? If you need to see PA when it gets to the point of decision to buy or sell then how can you call your analysis complete when you have to look at price when it reaches...

Hi Maverick,

I solve the riddle by looking for Levels where there has been Buying and Selling.

It's then a matter of seeing who has control at those Levels.

Which way is Price Breaking through a Level?

Once I see that I set a Limit Buy/Sell Order at Whole/Half Number within the Breakout Zone.

This is what makes sense to me because it's what I have been working on, in different forms, for a very long time.

I understand Landlines point of view because he wants everyone, reading his Journal, to find what works for them as individuals.

What I have pointed out above works for me but might confuse the hell out of you because you can't get into my head and see Price exactly as I see it.

This is why you can have a number of Traders Trading a Mechanical Method but have totally different results.

It was when I realised this that my Trading took a leap forward because I started to look for what worked for me and didn't try to copy what other Traders where doing.

I did a pick and mix of different things that made complete sense to me.

I hope this helps.
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  • #87
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:04am Oct 16, 2017 11:04am
The fact is, that those few who know how to successfully trade, actually rely on the multitude who don't know how to trade, because the right trading levels then become better positioned to exploit once the herd have helped.

All things considered, it should beg the question therefore, does it pay for the successful traders to reveal their trading details to the masses...I think not personally, but revealing concepts instead should/could help those that are prepared to put their own effort in if they are that interested in emulating another trader...handing something on a plate isn't the answer...imo of course lol.
  • #88
  • Oct 17, 2017 1:14am Oct 17, 2017 1:14am
Quoting Landline
The fact is, that those few who know how to successfully trade, actually rely on the multitude who don't know how to trade, because the right trading levels then become better positioned to exploit once the herd have helped. All things considered, it should beg the question therefore, does it pay for the successful traders to reveal their trading details to the masses...I think not personally, but revealing concepts instead should/could help those that are prepared to put their own effort in if they are that interested in emulating another trader...handing...

Hi Landline,

I understand what you are saying...

But, even by going into the detail of how I Trade there aren't many who actually take any notice let alone understand the mechanics of it.

Before Traders "get it" most will need years of Trading experience, I know I did.
  • #89
  • Oct 17, 2017 5:50am Oct 17, 2017 5:50am
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Landline, I understand what you are saying... But, even by going into the detail of how I Trade there aren't many who actually take any notice let alone understand the mechanics of it. Before Traders "get it" most will need years of Trading experience, I know I did.
OK..let's assume for the purposes of this discussion at least, that hyperthetically you are a successful trader.

My question was does it pay to reveal the details of how you are successful, and I'd argue that in general it is counter-productive to do so.

That means, in your case for example, where you gladly attempt to educate others in your particular approach (es), that you must have some other motive to want to do that, because if it's potentially counter-productive, then it's illogical to want to shoot yourself in the foot.

I'll repeat as I've already said however, that conceptual education imo is ok, because it forces those interested enough in someone else's methods, to put their own effort in without handing it to them on a plate.

I realise my views will not be wholly shared, and the thread is called only my take for precisely those kind of controversial (for some) reasons, where direct, honest trading-related topics are often seen as taboo and best kept closeted.
  • #90
  • Edited 4:31am Oct 18, 2017 4:12am | Edited 4:31am
The forum is littered with threads showing unbeatable methods. A new one seems to crop up on a daily basis.

No one ever loses...that's a laugh for starters. It just goes to show that well over 90% of posted trades are FT's which I've referred to as before, they delude themselves and those that follow them. People need to wake up and realise that most if not all those threads cannot be successful as generally claimed otherwise everyone would win and the market would collapse.

I saw a thread a while back for example, where some guy who shall remain nameless, implied that his oscillator and a couple of mas gave the market direction. What a nutcase, especially when it was pointed out that if anything, the market gives his oscillator and mas direction, not the other way round! Amazingly, this guy happens to be of a red flag status, and his story is quite typical across the forum...what does that tell you about the bs flag system that FF employs.

My basic advice to those looking to get a free ride if they must is, find a trader on FF, coloured flag or not, it doesn't matter, make sure they post only live charts, check their record of past trades posted, check that they are friendly enough to approach.

I confess I don't tick all those boxes, particularly on the friendly enough aspect so forget about me lol, but there are just one or two that do so far as I can tell, StevePatt being one of them, and tbh I'm now struggling to think of anyone else haha.

He may not be the best trader in town, but he is certainly not the worst either, and vitally you do get honesty from him, and that's rare on FF, and as has been discussed, he is quite willing to detail his approach to help others.
  • #91
  • Oct 19, 2017 4:23am Oct 19, 2017 4:23am
A lot of traders talk about trend and c/t. I wonder whether they have stopped to think through what they say half the time, because if they did, then they'd realise that what they call a counter-trend trade for example is often no more than a retrace of the underlying market bias.

I touched on this in post 76 and it's worth drilling down further for those unsure what it all means.

Any chart and any t/f has a market bias, and that fact needs to be clearly recognised. Obviously the lower the t/f though, the less reliable is the bias on that particular t/f. Therefore, scalpers for example operating on the sub h1 t/fs, and who are looking to capture say 10-20 pips do not need to concern themselves so much with what's going on with regard to the underlying bias, and need only react to the price movement as seen at that moment in time.

Higher t/s however, h1 (to some degree) and above, where the swings are more defined, can better utlise the bias in the existing t/f, along the lines that I briefly talked about ref post 76, and can be more safely corroborated if required by looking at the next higher t/f.

So, as you can see, the trend/ct stuff that people bang on about should be straightforward in my view, and my comments should help others to act according to how I've outlined it, and should help de-mystify what in fact the term trends etc really means.
  • #92
  • Oct 23, 2017 5:05am Oct 23, 2017 5:05am
GU is closing in on my trigger points with tap already in place.
  • #93
  • Oct 24, 2017 4:41am Oct 24, 2017 4:41am
GU not yet triggered for me....it's been pretty quiet on most markets so far this week generally, with no money being moved about thus far. Patience as always is the key, especially when price is in the doldrums, and those kinds of conditions makes it tempting to veer away and manufacture a trade that isn't really there, and these are the types of market conditions that brokers thrive on.

Personally, I'm just sitting tight on my own orders. and trusting my analysis that when the money comes back into the market, then my orders are waiting to get triggered.....rather than chase.
  • #94
  • Oct 25, 2017 3:51am Oct 25, 2017 3:51am
Quoting Landline
GU not yet triggered for me....it's been pretty quiet on most markets so far this week generally, with no money being moved about thus far. Patience as always is the key, especially when price is in the doldrums, and those kinds of conditions makes it tempting to veer away and manufacture a trade that isn't really there, and these are the types of market conditions that brokers thrive on. Personally, I'm just sitting tight on my own orders. and trusting my analysis that when the money comes back into the market, then my orders are waiting to get...
One of my GU orders has triggered, but still not much market interest in general, the big boys haven't done much this week so far, and it will be only the scalping traders I'd expect who are involved for now.

The good news for me is that tardy markets usually play into my hand, where both tap increases the likelihood of a successful outcome eventually from a swing trading pov, providing the trades management is controlled as I've outlined in previous live trades posted.

Perhaps the second half of the week will see the markets wake up....
  • #95
  • Oct 25, 2017 4:27am Oct 25, 2017 4:27am
The trait of most traders (budding or otherwise) is that they don't trust themselves, let alone anyone else, and most of that can be attributed to all the bs found right across forums like FF, where complexity and confusion reigns as a result.

Simpification is the real solution so far as I'm concerned. In other words, determine what matters, nothing more nothing less and discard everything else, for example you don't need 2 different oscillators where both are telling you the same thing for instance (not that I recommend oscillators btw, far from it!) and then that way you'll be able to see the woods from the trees.

Start doing that, and then you'll start to trust yourselves more, and in the process start making valid trading decisions without influence from other so-called experts!
  • #96
  • Oct 25, 2017 6:47am Oct 25, 2017 6:47am
Quoting Landline
{quote} One of my GU orders has triggered, but still not much market interest in general, the big boys haven't done much this week so far, and it will be only the scalping traders I'd expect who are involved for now. The good news for me is that tardy markets usually play into my hand, where both tap increases the likelihood of a successful outcome eventually from a swing trading pov, providing the trades management is controlled as I've outlined in previous live trades posted. Perhaps the second half of the week will see the markets wake up....
Well, no sooner had I posted the above, that it took off very nicely. Closed out +120...not a bad days work at all.
  • #97
  • Oct 26, 2017 3:57am Oct 26, 2017 3:57am
My first EG position has triggered now on daily chart. This trade (and any add-ons that I may make during the process) has the makings of a long duration set-up based upon where tap currently is, and patience needs to be exercised. As usual, I expect a positive outcome naturally, but I will need to manage the trades as they develop as per my normal routines. covered in some detail in various trades throughout the early part of the journal.
  • #98
  • Oct 26, 2017 4:21am Oct 26, 2017 4:21am
The cbg thread seems to be struggling I noticed, and he seems to bear all the classic symptoms of losing his disciplines and direction. I think this bears out what I've always said about grid-type systems, and particularly when an IB is the main part of the trigger mechanism...basically a recipe for disaster in my view.

He needs to seriously reconsider his approach, with a view to a full overhaul of his method at minimum, or abandoning that approach full stop (recommended). Still. it's his money not mine, he can do what he wants, but I think his stubbornness is getting the better of him personally....and that's a dangerous place to be! I hope for his sake he makes the right decisions, because he is a transparent type after all, and allows everyone to see his mistakes....good luck to him either way.
  • #99
  • Oct 26, 2017 2:11pm Oct 26, 2017 2:11pm
There are so many weird and abstract views across the forums and the world, (in comparison to my own take on everything' that is).

The bottom line is it doesn't pay to listen to anyone other than yourself, the main reason being that everyone wants their view to be agreed with, and that ain't ever going to happen.

I've just read parts of another thread for instance, where someone with a track record of being the only one who's ever right, banging on about a topic, determined to force his point across. He's an idiot and always has been, but he's not alone, there are hundreds like that, and the bigger proportion of those gobsters are red flag status!...need I say more lol.

No surprise therefore that I'm more than happy to be away from those crack-heads, and cocoon myself away in this little journal instead, where I can comment and cast my own opinion to my hearts content and banish those others who I don't like to the ignore bin lol.
  • #100
  • Oct 27, 2017 5:56am Oct 27, 2017 5:56am
Certain people talk about the need for a precision entry.

What these people do not understand is that precision is totally relative.

A scalper will need a much more precise entry for example than a swing trader, and that is one of the reasons that I rarely scalp personally.

My style allows for plenty of breathing room per entry, and that can increase once I have multiple positions in play on the same instrument. The main point being, that a swing trader cannot know precisely where or when a trade will make a telling move, and hence why a tolerant stop is required.

What a proficient swing trader will and must know though, is when their trade direction is simply wrong, and then get out. Other than that, the concept is actually straightforward enough, providing patience is applied, and then it's just the trade management thereafter that needs attention when needed. .
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