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  • #33,781
  • Mar 31, 2024 2:54pm Mar 31, 2024 2:54pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} A few have already switched back because futures firms suck.
They're certainly not as retail friendly as CFDs, that's for sure.

Perhaps some legit competition will make the Futures industry better as the days of US traders being able to use CFD firms is likely to be limited.

My impression of the Futures props is they are more legit and there aren't scammy ones denying payouts. Perhaps that's because it's so hard to get a payout (or was, when I last looked at them).
  • #33,782
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:06pm Mar 31, 2024 3:06pm
Quoting rizla101
{quote} Someone here mentioned ninja, and on twitter I heard tradovate not accepting any new evaluation firms.
not sure who bought out who, but NinjaTrader and Tradovate are one-and-the-same.

my guess is NT purchased/absorbed Tradovate
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #33,783
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:07pm Mar 31, 2024 3:07pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}They're certainly not as retail friendly as CFDs, that's for sure. Perhaps some legit competition will make the Futures industry better as the days of US traders being able to use CFD firms is likely to be limited. My impression of the Futures props is they are more legit and there aren't scammy ones denying payouts. Perhaps that's because it's so hard to get a payout (or was, when I last looked at them).
The programs themselves are scam for the most part. If you look at them properly they are so hard for a reason and it is not to hunt out good traders. The trailing drawdowns and various rules will kill any legit strategy as well through a volatile period.
  • #33,784
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:12pm Mar 31, 2024 3:12pm
Quoting labu
{quote} After having analyzed futures for a few years I can finally understand why the old dogs here are so reluctant with futures. Especially last year I noticed how the HFT in futures picked up speed. Creating way more noise than earlier. Maybe since Im a newbie I just started to really notice it. But it was somewhere around 5 months ago a major change in speed HFT picks up and changed noise more. So can understand retail traders who likes manual trading and avoids the futures arena as it seems will be very tough for "manual" traders in the future...
I’ve been trading futures for the past 5-6 years, (mostly NQ and YM) and not sure about any noticeable changes. There are on occasions market rotations, between the two. For the past 5-6 months ago tech rallied along with ES and then Dow lagging behind a bit.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #33,785
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:13pm Mar 31, 2024 3:13pm
Quoting JustPipMe
{quote} not sure who bought out who, but NinjaTrader and Tradovate are one-and-the-same. my guess is NT purchased/absorbed Tradovate
That’s exactly what happen.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #33,786
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:18pm Mar 31, 2024 3:18pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The programs themselves are scam for the most part. If you look at them properly they are so hard for a reason and it is not to hunt out good traders. The trailing drawdowns and various rules will kill any legit strategy as well through a volatile period.
I think a lot have a hard time wrapping their heads around intraday only trading. Scalping is a bit of an art and swing traders (trying to push a square peg into a round hole) find it frustrating. BE traders get murdered. Theres a rhythm to the market after the open everyday. Quick in, quick out, call it a day.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #33,787
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:29pm Mar 31, 2024 3:29pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} MFF is dead. But very good news for world traders...IC Markets have now prop firm. But don't accepting USA traders.
IC Market's entry into the prop space has already been discussed at length in here. May I politely suggest you get your head out of your ass.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #33,788
  • Mar 31, 2024 3:43pm Mar 31, 2024 3:43pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I think a lot have a hard time wrapping their heads around intraday only trading. Scalping is a bit of an art and swing traders (trying to push a square peg into a round hole) find it frustrating. BE traders get murdered. Theres a rhythm to the market after the open everyday. Quick in, quick out, call it a day.
In profit - take multiple down days (still in profit) dead. Trading conditions. I didnt have this problem fortunately as market has been quite flat for me. But one day I would and it would be infuriating.
  • #33,789
  • Mar 31, 2024 4:18pm Mar 31, 2024 4:18pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}They're certainly not as retail friendly as CFDs, that's for sure. Perhaps some legit competition will make the Futures industry better as the days of US traders being able to use CFD firms is likely to be limited. My impression of the Futures props is they are more legit and there aren't scammy ones denying payouts. Perhaps that's because it's so hard to get a payout (or was, when I last looked at them).
Not nearly as friendly as forex props. However, in the US, sick of bitching and complaining to no avail, so futures it is.
  • #33,790
  • Mar 31, 2024 5:19pm Mar 31, 2024 5:19pm
Evidence that Fundingpips is a dodgy lie is starting to pile up. Business death is spreading global. More news at 11.
  • #33,791
  • Mar 31, 2024 6:55pm Mar 31, 2024 6:55pm
Quoting Quickly
{quote} Apparently so. Many posters in this thread have apparently seen the light of day and switched to futures. None will switch back, that’s for sure. I congratulate them all and wish them well.
What about FX crosses like GBP/AUD etc. Have to trade long GU short AD in a synthetic. I think not. Spot still has its advantages
  • #33,792
  • Mar 31, 2024 8:29pm Mar 31, 2024 8:29pm
Quoting pipmaster77
when I am in quantower, it appears as AMP and rithmic are two different feeds.
-Which might be a good thing. I contacted AMP about sub accounts, and was told that having more than two would qualify you as a professional, with significantly higher data fees. Although sub accounts are not what we are talking about, it is something to keep in mind, nonetheless.

If both, AMP and Apex, were providing data from the same provider, then we might be more at risk for getting flagged as a professional. Since AMP's QT data feed is coming from CQG and Apex's QT data feed is coming from Rithmic, then we should presumably be fine. Like you, I am just learning this stuff, so I could be wrong.

Flexytrade is offering QT via Rithmic also. For those that consider doing Apex + Flexy, they might ask about having accounts at both to determine if they can still trade as a non-professional. Looking at Quantower's website, FlexyTrade does not show up yet under their connections page. I have not contacted QT's support to inquire about whether or not they are actually working with Flexy, but it might be something to investigate before opening an account with them.

I think it is silly if data providers are classifying traders as professionals, based on the number of accounts that they have, since based on my understanding, that is not supposed to be a criteria for determining professional status. It seems that these data providers do not care, though. This is just my impression. If there is any truth to it, then it just brings into question so-called regulatory protections again.
  • #33,793
  • Mar 31, 2024 8:29pm Mar 31, 2024 8:29pm
Quoting PropDude1234
I'm hearing the providers who'd enable a firm to get in the Futures space are rejecting applications / proposals and doing more due diligence.
-I hope that this is true.
  • #33,794
  • Mar 31, 2024 8:37pm Mar 31, 2024 8:37pm
Question for all the FUTURES CHAMPIONS . How/where to see the DOLLAR value of stop loss/take profit in tradovate???
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #33,795
  • Mar 31, 2024 9:00pm Mar 31, 2024 9:00pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The programs themselves are scam for the most part. If you look at them properly they are so hard for a reason and it is not to hunt out good traders. The trailing drawdowns and various rules will kill any legit strategy as well through a volatile period.
If a trader has enough data points to know their system's maximum losing streak + drawdown, you just need to lower your risk so you can survive that sort of
negative period. Once you get past the payout threshold when the trailing stops, you can use almost any strategy that's possible in a private CFD/futures account other than swing systems. Personally, mostly no slippage + not having to overcome CFD spreads has made my system more profitable @ futures props.
  • #33,796
  • Mar 31, 2024 9:08pm Mar 31, 2024 9:08pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I think it is silly if data providers are classifying traders as professionals, based on the number of accounts that they have, since based on my understanding, that is not supposed to be a criteria for determining professional status. It seems that these data providers do not care, though. This is
just my impression. If there is any truth to it, then it just brings into question so-called regulatory protections again.
The exchanges want their money! It's one of the many financial reasons CFD's are banned in the US in the 1st place... to protect the exchanges (NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ, COMEX, NYMEX, CME, CBOT & ICE) that have political clout & lobbyists in Washington.
  • #33,797
  • Mar 31, 2024 11:54pm Mar 31, 2024 11:54pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Once you get past the payout threshold when the trailing stops, you can use almost any strategy that's possible in a private CFD/futures account other than swing systems.
Once you get past the payout threshold when the trailing stops, you are risking your profit and the futures prop has no risk at all. Why keep money at prop's account and be limited by various rules?
  • #33,798
  • Apr 1, 2024 2:06am Apr 1, 2024 2:06am
Quoting montygoldy
Question for all the FUTURES CHAMPIONS . How/where to see the DOLLAR value of stop loss/take profit in tradovate???
Definitely not a champion.

But if in a trade, you can open the DOM there is a setting ( show estimated p/l) that will place what your profit or loss would be against every price.
  • #33,799
  • Apr 1, 2024 2:39am Apr 1, 2024 2:39am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Great point, however, when I am in quantower, it appears as AMP and rithmic are two different feeds. I use MT5 with AMP, I am going to try quantower with them and investigate a bit further. I simply do not know enough to comment if it'll work or not. {image}
I'm being lazy and didn't investigate yet Quantower with all the tip you kindly provided. But you find out anything more about this please share because apparently several people here have AMP account (myself included).
  • #33,800
  • Edited 2:58am Apr 1, 2024 2:39am | Edited 2:58am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Once you get past the payout threshold when the trailing stops, you are risking your profit and the futures prop has no risk at all. Why keep money at prop's account and be limited by various rules?
The only major rules > threshold is the 80K payout limit (4K per 50K x 20) per month the 1st 3 payout months and no holding overnight... I'm fine with that.

Same as live... 100% payout on 1st 500K (25K x 20 accounts)

Benefits vs live... prop simulated large size execution is always better than live execution, able to trade simulated total contracts significantly greater than what is possible live without massive slippage = greater profit potential.

Cons vs live... tax treatment of gains/income
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