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  • #25,941
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:32am Nov 10, 2023 9:32am
Here is the math if one has problem to do it on his own. 2.72^(3k profit goal / 2.5k max. DD) * 2.72^(2.6k/2.5k on PA) = ca. 10 this needs to be multiplied by all the fees you pay. So for 90% discount and you pass in first month it is with lifetime fees $160, if you need to 2 months for the evaluation you already pay ca. $190, this times 10 in relation to the trailing DD you get at PA for the 50k, this is 2.5k (only). So score well below 2. Just not worth it. And the trailing and consistency rules facts are not considered in this formula which makes it harder to pass and get the payout on Apex versus other FX prop firms. So better you all traders forget those Future props. They are garbage in terms what you get as value for your money. Better to trade on your own personal account or just do FTMO and other better FX props.!!!
  • #25,942
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:35am Nov 10, 2023 9:35am
Quoting TrAndy1
Just to make it round for all Apex traders or wannabees. Even the 50k does not make much sense on trailing regarding trading on an own personal account at a futures broker. Because doing 3k on a 2.5k DD even on a small 50k account means more than 3.3 times value already. Then you need again to do this with more consistency on the PA account. So even with 90% discount and lifetime fee you pay something like $160. Then you need to multiply this by 10 and put this in relation to the max. DD you get on PA. So you see that for $1600 value you get $2500...
So you went to saying "APEX BAD" then "APEX GOOD", now back to APEX BAD?

From the same clown who was pimped BESPOKE nonstop no less.

How is that someone who claims this:

Quoting TrAndy1
I traded a lot of futures in the past. I came from options trading some years earlier with good success before entering the futures space. Only from last recent 4 years I switched to Spot Forex only. Some time ago I made 12% of daily volume of the whole exchange on SMI Swiss Index Futures with thousand of contracts traded every day on a real prop trading firm. So nobody can say to me I have no idea futures trading. Also I got a personal invite to meet the former CME chairman and broker CEO for establishing an own hedge fund. But I refused to pay...
knows so little about futures or trading in general?

Your own words what sinks you.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,943
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:38am Nov 10, 2023 9:38am
Apex huge discounts at "cheap" offers are like a brainwashing machine, if your greed is too much and you do not stay calm and do all the math behind before, you get a slap in your face over time. There is a reason why Apex can do the payouts, it is as hard as doing trading on the own personal account, there is no advantage here with all the trailing and consistency rules and a score at 1.5 or even lower. THIS IS JUST GARBAGE OFFER. It is tricky because you need to read a lot of pages on a not good sorted website. It is like a mess. But when you read it all and apply all the math on their numbers, it is not good. Nothing else to say. And other Fut. props are robbery.
  • #25,944
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:55am Nov 10, 2023 9:55am
With the current 70% discount offer at Apex, which is usually the cheapest offer among all Future prop firms. You already pay with all fees in its values at least $2000 to get $2500 trailing max. Drawdown. If you need 2 months for the eval, you already pay in value $2500 to get $2500 DD with trailing and some rules. Who the fuck would exchange this with real money ? No way. Wake up. Those Future props are not worth your hard earned money. It is that simple if you do all the math. FACTS !!
  • #25,945
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:00am Nov 10, 2023 10:00am
Great end to the week. Over 10K banked for the day.

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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,946
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:02am Nov 10, 2023 10:02am
I find it pity that regarding the messy Apex website and all the reading material you need to do first, that there was no other trader who made that math before I came up now. It took me some time. But better one is shouting the truth here than no one. All the Future props have shitty offers. There is NO good one in this Fut. industry.
  • #25,947
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:04am Nov 10, 2023 10:04am
All that Apex hype here in the last week for nothing. Prolly nothing. There is nothing to say anymore. Just another garbage offer around at the market for fools only.
  • #25,948
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:12am Nov 10, 2023 10:12am
Quoting TrAndy1
I find it pity that regarding the messy Apex website and all the reading material you need to do first, that there was no other trader who made that math before I came up now. It took me some time. But better one is shouting the truth here than no one. All the Future props have shitty offers. There is NO good one in this Fut. industry.
What is best prop in your opinion atm?
  • #25,949
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:13am Nov 10, 2023 10:13am
Quoting kalastaja
{quote} What is best prop in your opinion atm?
FTMO and ACG. FXIFY only if you are maxed out at the other two. I find ACG offer good and find them valuable and trustable on their payouts.
  • #25,950
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:17am Nov 10, 2023 10:17am
Quoting TrAndy1
I find it pity that regarding the messy Apex website and all the reading material you need to do first, that there was no other trader who made that math before I came up now. It took me some time. But better one is shouting the truth here than no one. All the Future props have shitty offers. There is NO good one in this Fut. industry.

What you think about this one?? Can u do the math??
I am asking about 1500 end of day drawdown and 1500 profit target offer for 125$.

https://tradeday.com/our-pricing/

I think you make one big mistake.
1. You don't know other traders style. For example if someone is scalping and know his trade distribution, and know that have winning streaks around 10 trades in a row, or even 5, he can easily take advantage form Apex offer. There is plenty of good traders who take 1-2 trades daily and got very high win ratio.

2. Comparing one step futures programs with 2 step forex programs is useless. With FX props even if offer looks better, don't forget that you have 2 challenges and second one got same probability of failing as first one. It doesn't matter how good your first phase was, the second one if u start with loosing you can fail whole program.

It is not everything about math and stats, if this approach would work in markets someone would already have holy grail code and become billionaire.
  • #25,951
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:25am Nov 10, 2023 10:25am
Quoting youngD
{quote} What you think about this one?? Can u do the math?? I am asking about 1500 end of day drawdown and 1500 profit target offer for 125$. https://tradeday.com/our-pricing/ I think you make one big mistake. 1. You don't know other traders style. For example if someone is scalping and know his trade distribution, and know that have winning streaks around 10 trades in a row, or even 5, he can easily take advantage form Apex offer. There is plenty of good traders who take 1-2 trades daily and got very high win ratio. 2. Comparing one...
Sorry, but math is math. That does not depend on ones each trading style. All what I have done here and posted is math and are facts. That is independent from other things. To your request, I do not have the time to go through each future prop its website. Their offers are not that clearly with all rules and cost involved, so it needs to time to calculate everything correctly. But usually the offers are not good at all. I would avoid all Future props, than just do your challenge at FTMO first. Best advice.
  • #25,952
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:27am Nov 10, 2023 10:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly. Everything rolls through AMP at this point. 20 accounts at APEX, just hitting first payout is 40K. Even if you have 100K in AMP, you just increased 40%......40K for an investment of what $2K ish? Let's say one only has 10K with AMP....400% increase!!!!!! I think most are looking at this all wrong.........WE ARE NOT BUILDING LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS with props....we are simply accelerating the growth in personal accounts.
To the point. Thats why i am buying all the new cheap prop firms challenges. My calculation is a 10-15k total payout from each firm and get as many funded accounts (My list says 12 lol) and rather than a Huge account challenge on one better to buy multiples (for me 200k is best easy to pull in 2-3%(4k-5k) gain a month). Easily one can pull in 100k or more in at least 6 month. There you go personal 100K account.
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #25,953
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:29am Nov 10, 2023 10:29am
Quoting youngD
{quote} What you think about this one?? Can u do the math?? I am asking about 1500 end of day drawdown and 1500 profit target offer for 125$. https://tradeday.com/our-pricing/ I think you make one big mistake. 1. You don't know other traders style. For example if someone is scalping and know his trade distribution, and know that have winning streaks around 10 trades in a row, or even 5, he can easily take advantage form Apex offer. There is plenty of good traders who take 1-2 trades daily and got very high win ratio. 2. Comparing one...
What you said does not matter to all the math that applied here earlier. 2 steps does not mean it is always harder than 1 steps, it depends on the numbers and how much you pay for the fees involved. And again there are math geniuses like Jim Simons on Rentec hedge fund and another math CEO at XTX Markets, a huge FX market maker, one of the biggest in the world, who are (multi) billionaires with all the math they do in their trading. You are so wrong in what you are saying....sorry to all that.
  • #25,954
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:30am Nov 10, 2023 10:30am
Futures are great for people who have some knowledge of how the markets work. Those who complain about futures generally do not. Leverage is the deal breaker for me and futures. If I could get 1:500 leverage on 10 yr t bills and 5 yr I would totally spread myself to millions.
  • #25,955
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:30am Nov 10, 2023 10:30am
Quoting youngD
{quote} What you think about this one?? Can u do the math?? I am asking about 1500 end of day drawdown and 1500 profit target offer for 125$. https://tradeday.com/our-pricing/ I think you make one big mistake. 1. You don't know other traders style. For example if someone is scalping and know his trade distribution, and know that have winning streaks around 10 trades in a row, or even 5, he can easily take advantage form Apex offer. There is plenty of good traders who take 1-2 trades daily and got very high win ratio. 2. Comparing one...
Trandy’s a math egghead, knows absolutely nothing about trading, prop firms, etc. Zero.

Remember he was shilling Bespoke non stop for weeks regardless everyone else were pointing out how scammy they were.

Asking him for prop advice is akin to asking a morbidly obese person for diet advice.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,956
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:32am Nov 10, 2023 10:32am
Quoting Takisd
Futures are great for people who have some knowledge of how the markets work. Those who complain about futures generally do not. Leverage is the deal breaker for me and futures. If I could get 1:500 leverage on 10 yr t bills and 5 yr I would totally spread myself to millions.
Yes of course leverage is a good thing for people who can handle it. But that has nothing to do with the garbage offers from retail Future prop firms, like Apex and etc..
  • #25,957
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:37am Nov 10, 2023 10:37am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} FTMO and ACG. FXIFY only if you are maxed out at the other two. I find ACG offer good and find them valuable and trustable on their payouts.
Thx! Will investigate these.
  • #25,958
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:39am Nov 10, 2023 10:39am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, just received the email. This has to be a good sign for longevity of FTMO.
thank god for that, as I really hope us U.S. guys will be able to continue with FTMO. At least another 2-3 years anyway.
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #25,959
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:40am Nov 10, 2023 10:40am
Quoting TrAndy1
Better to trade on your own personal account or just do FTMO and other better FX props.!!!
My personal account is a whopping $1k. Yes, that's it. Late start here. I'm probably older than you are. Even if I trade perfectly, I don't have 10 years to grow this account. I'm in the US, so *hoping* Futures prop will not get killed by CFTC. I haven't passed my Apex challenge yet, but I'm hanging in there. Steadily climbing up and every week I understand the dang platform better than the previous week.

I like FTMO but it's not a given yet that all will be kosher for those of us in the US. Please don't rain on my little parade. That said, I have a large umbrella.
  • #25,960
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:53am Nov 10, 2023 10:53am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But before you should be maxed out at FTMO; and ACG. Probably also at FXIFY (and FE) before you switch your strategy to Indices or trade on Apex, because the chances of a payout are less overall. Yes the payout chances at FXIFY are less than Apex, but you need to consider the higher difficulty to achieve any payout at Apex.
I must be feeling cranky today. My apologies. I should ignore this but.... With FTMO I need to make 10% then 5%. On a 50k challenge that's $5k + $2500. With Apex I need to make $3k and $2600. The daily DD is the same. With FTMO, I'll start with an 80% payout. With Apex, tho I'll be limited to $2k withdrawals for 3 months, the first $25k I earn is all mine. Well, and some for the government next April. One small consideration is cost. FTMO is multiples of Apex or TopStep but IS refundable when you pass. Yay! What if I screw up? I'm out $374. If I screw up the Apex challenge, I'm out $17-$37 (so far $54 invested).

There is no perfect scenario. We don't know what we don't know with what the CFTC will do and how that will hurt us.
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