Day-trading tales remind us that humans are poor investors and even worse traders | Crypto Craft

  • Day-trading tales remind us that humans are poor investors and even worse traders

    From marketwatch.com

    The shocking death of Alex Kearns, a 20-year-old day trader who recently died by suicide, highlights a broader caution to young people: do not get sucked into digital trading platforms — no matter whether they have noble-sounding names or are “free.” You will most likely lose your money or worse. There are better ways to make money. With the exception of people like Warren Buffett, humans are poor investors and even worse traders. Sure, the occasional human might get lucky, but in general, the odds are heavily stacked against you. Unless you have some special information or expertise, you are best off investing ... (full story)

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NotAtrader
Jun 26, 2020 2:00am
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People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money.

The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand.

Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment will be refined down to knowledgeable and good traders and there will be no need for tons of rules making the trading difficult and destroying the FOREX industry.
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Trader#0577
Jun 26, 2020 12:37am
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A great way to make sure a large amount of the world (besides the few 10% who dedicate their time to learning to trade and have financial freedom), and work for a boss that controls their earnings. If banks can trade with people's money, people can do it with their own money instead of getting $5 a year for a crumb of an interest rate.
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Breza
Jun 26, 2020 6:55am
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Quoting Yawgmouth
Look, if no one lost money, no one would make money. The winners need a steady supply of idiot traders or there would be no money to be had. It's not just risky, it's the way the game is played and must be played. Come on, it's a zero sum game we play here. Someone wins... someone loses.
Forex does not exist because of retail traders, hedge funds, speculators of various kinds ... but because of countries, their economies, large companies, which have a need to exchange money.
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webart
Jun 26, 2020 6:51am
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Quoting dustbin
{quote} It is a Factual Reality that 80% of traders lose money. {image}
That sounds like over a reporting period of 3 months, when looked at over 3 years up to 98% of retail traders loose.
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harcos
Jun 26, 2020 5:31am
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Quoting NotAtrader
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money. The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand. Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment...
Yes and No,
It's true many traders are more akin to gamblers so making people qualify to trade would solve nothing as I believe the errors they make are more often physiological ie: gambling on hopes instead of having a tried and tested plan. Most traders know what they need to know to be successful except for the proper execution of that knowledge.
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renminbi
Jun 26, 2020 2:43am
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This is one of the most irrational articles I've read that seems to make all sorts of wild and unfounded associations. It's strange that a data scientist would choose to write this instead of something clean or provable which could actually be useful.
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Not-KPMG
Jun 26, 2020 2:56am
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I haven't even read it 😂🐒🐒🐒 but i know it's moronic article.

Sooooo?
Someone lost money... Or suicided.??? Sad.

So???

I hit my parents pinkie on the table leg 😨😨😭😭😭

Legs are evilllllll 🙉🙉🙉
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Not-KPMG
Jun 28, 2020 1:23pm
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Quoting 4for4
{quote} Floating-profit belongs to the market. Closed-profit is ours to keep ...


I heard this in the voice of Brando in Godfather movie.

You have my respect and friendship pal
Reply
joyny
Jun 27, 2020 12:39pm
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Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} What?? 5% profit a month is kids play. Manual. I make that much now (barely open charts) , and over 10% too when I wanted to trade more. It's all practice and patience. No, not everyone has the brains
Ok show your consistent results with adequate risk in trade explorer please.
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Fix-it
Jun 26, 2020 1:44am
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I agree with professor, the fact are facts. If you learn to trade using fundamentals and technical analysis then as long as you stick to your rules of trades then you will make money, and human emotion are the one which cost you money not the platform. some platform will make money by widening of spreads from time to time. one has to decide what you want......
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4for4
Jun 28, 2020 7:16am
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Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} Seems good... But these are just closed orders?? You may have 700 positions open running at 10000000 loss
Waiting for FF to link MT5 to their Trade Explorer ...
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4for4
Jun 28, 2020 7:36am
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Quoting Not-KPMG
4for4 Why hold gold for such a small profit??? I had lots of gold longs from 1725-35 to about 1765. During lies and red stocks I was OK to wait...
Floating-profit belongs to the market. Closed-profit is ours to keep ...
Reply
dustbin
Jun 26, 2020 1:07am
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Quoting Guest
A great way to make sure a large amount of the world (besides the few 10% who dedicate their time to learning to trade and have financial freedom), and work for a boss that controls their earnings. If banks can trade with people's money, people can do it with their own money instead of getting $5 a year for a crumb of an interest rate.
It is a Factual Reality that 80% of traders lose money.

After the laws changed and Brokers were forced to show their percentage of losing clients it was an urban myth. Turns out it was no myth. It is a fact that 80% of traders lose money.

Why else would a reputable forex broker display a clear banner on the top of their website? I'm sure they would love to show some "offers" at that place but like the "cigarette" box it displays this cold, harsh, ugly reality.

here is Pepperstone UK

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UnBearybull
Jun 26, 2020 8:26am
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Quoting Yawgmouth
Look, if no one lost money, no one would make money. The winners need a steady supply of idiot traders or there would be no money to be had. It's not just risky, it's the way the game is played and must be played. Come on, it's a zero sum game we play here. Someone wins... someone loses.
Just give 17 y.o. kid the motorbike keys on their birthday and let them get on with it?

Better training, warnings about odds of losing first and then if they still want to gamble then OK.

P.s.On Etoro, this would not have happened as you cant go below 0% on your account.
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Mingary
Jun 26, 2020 1:47am
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We all know that this does not apply to retail forex..
look at the posts in FF, so many retail forex millionaires...
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Breza
Jun 26, 2020 8:51am
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i need to continue post 22.

it is theoretically possible for 100% of retailers to win or 100% to lose.
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4for4
Jun 27, 2020 8:01pm
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Manually done ... (my last 14 trades) ...

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Yawgmouth
Jun 26, 2020 4:05am
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Look, if no one lost money, no one would make money. The winners need a steady supply of idiot traders or there would be no money to be had. It's not just risky, it's the way the game is played and must be played. Come on, it's a zero sum game we play here. Someone wins... someone loses.
Reply
donroyalfx
Jun 26, 2020 8:38am
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Quoting fontu
RIP. short trading is near to gambling with whatever analysis done, over 90% correct even & almost proper money management but one some bad day may loss what hard earned . people better become investor rather a trader at all.
Its not true please, I am 11years old in this trading and I have my own strategy ...and is working please
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donroyalfx
Jun 27, 2020 3:02am
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Quoting joyny
Article states - only automated trading can succeed after proper quantitative data analysis. Renaissance Technologies do it more than 30 years with an average 60% yearly profits - so it is possible. Do not trade manually.
This also is not true ....I have been trading manually for 11years ...
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NotAtrader
Jun 26, 2020 4:37am
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Quoting DonFF
{quote} What makes Forex Traders different to Business startups?.....in any country for that matter? Are the failures destroying the business industry?
I am afraid you totally misunderstood me.
There is no difference, but since we have such strict requirements then make the requirements correct and right for the traders and for the industry. The point is - if you want to trade then pass a qualification program and if you pass the requirements then you are good to go.

Further I didn’t say that the failures are destroying the industry. Incorrect rules like the ones implemented by corrupt ESMA do.
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NotAtrader
Jun 26, 2020 4:41am
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Quoting ajantala
{quote} Ergo...FTMO Challenge!
Hell NO!!!

We are talking about r own money. FTMO is for people with a good luck, not for people with professional trading skills.
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here2there
Jun 26, 2020 5:36am
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Quoting NotAtrader
...there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX...
Corruption would find its way in such a program.
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fontu
Jun 26, 2020 7:28am
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RIP. short trading is near to gambling with whatever analysis done, over 90% correct even & almost proper money management but one some bad day may loss what hard earned . people better become investor rather a trader at all.
Reply
Not-KPMG
Jun 27, 2020 10:33am
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Quoting joyny
Article states - only automated trading can succeed after proper quantitative data analysis. Renaissance Technologies do it more than 30 years with an average 60% yearly profits - so it is possible. Do not trade manually.
What??

5% profit a month is kids play. Manual.

I make that much now (barely open charts) , and over 10% too when I wanted to trade more.😲👏

It's all practice and patience.🐢

No, not everyone has the brains 😲😲🐒
Reply
Not-KPMG
Jun 28, 2020 6:27am
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Quoting joyny
{quote} Ok show your consistent results with adequate risk in trade explorer please.
Let me think.. ....

I should compromise my privacy, by connecting a REAL account to FF here.???
My broker etc will learn my other activities, like having good many bitcoin.... My wife sometime will find out, just as I'm preparing for divorce.....?? 💰💰

But

I'll earn the fake respect of random guys in funny website??? 😊😜😂😂😂

Let me think again ?? ?? 🤔 🤔🤔🤔

.
..
...
....

How about NO
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Not-KPMG
Jun 28, 2020 6:37am
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Quoting 4for4
Manually done ... (my last 14 trades) ... {image}


Seems good...

But these are just closed orders??

You may have 700 positions open running at 10000000 loss
Reply
Not-KPMG
Jun 28, 2020 6:42am
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4for4
Why hold gold for such a small profit???

I had lots of gold longs from 1725-35 to about 1765.

During lies and red stocks I was OK to wait...
Reply
joyny
Jun 26, 2020 10:27am
Permalink
Article states - only automated trading can succeed after proper quantitative data analysis. Renaissance Technologies do it more than 30 years with an average 60% yearly profits - so it is possible.

Do not trade manually.
Reply
Breza
Jun 26, 2020 5:29am
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I think many both young and experienced traders would have a lot more success having a boss (or wife) for day-to-day control.
Without supervision, they lose discipline depending on their mood, then they easily switch to gambling mode.
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ajantala
Jun 26, 2020 4:03am
Permalink
Quoting NotAtrader
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money. The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand. Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment...
Ergo...FTMO Challenge!
Reply
renminbi
Jun 26, 2020 2:44am
Permalink
Quoting dustbin
{quote} It is a Factual Reality that 80% of traders lose money. After the laws changed and Brokers were forced to show their percentage of losing clients it was an urban myth. Turns out it was no myth. It is a fact that 80% of traders lose money. Why else would a reputable forex broker display a clear banner on the top of their website? I'm sure they would love to show some "offers" at that place but like the "cigarette" box it displays this cold, harsh, ugly reality. here is Pepperstone UK {image}
You're focusing on the 75% that don't make it that you're not seeing the 25% that do make it. What you're implying applies to any industry, not just trading. Take for example working at a restaurant, or a movie theater, or being a college student. There is always going to be a percentage of people who try to do something but just don't have what it takes. If the success rate the brokers are publishing is a good estimate then I would say that is actually great. That 25% gives plenty of motivation for someone to keep trying given the potential upside if they make it.
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YYZ
Jun 26, 2020 3:48am
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It should be allowed hedge trading, removed FIFO....brokers insisted on these for their benefits. there is no one to represent traders in front of regulators.
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joyny
Jun 27, 2020 4:51am
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Quoting donroyalfx
{quote} This also is not true ....I have been trading manually for 11years ...
Show your stats then please in trade explorer at least we can see % growth.
Reply
gepards
Jun 28, 2020 1:36pm
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Quoting Not-KPMG
You have my respect and friendship pal
Fake respect to fake "successful" trader from a fake "successful" trader
Reply
webart
Jun 26, 2020 7:00am
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Quoting Breza
{quote} Forex does not exist because of retail traders, hedge funds, speculators of various kinds ... but because of countries, their economies, large companies, which have a need to exchange money.
Exactly, the market is very close to efficient, finding money in the market's up and down movements is to find an inefficiency in the market. If enough people find the inefficiency it turns into efficiency.
Reply
HBN08
Jun 26, 2020 5:46am
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Hello all im thinking of chaging my broker to a new one can someone say me a good broker that works for Portugal?
Thanks
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dustbin
Jun 26, 2020 1:10am
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here is FXCM
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DonFF
Jun 26, 2020 4:23am
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Quoting NotAtrader
People who lose their money in FOREX trading are not traders. They just think they can make easy money and try their luck. Thus not not 80% of the traders lose money. The right definition imo is - 80% of the people who lose lose money in FOREX trading are not traders and have nothing to do in a business they do not understand. Instead of implementing draconian rules like ESMA did, there should be a qualification program for everyone who wish to trade FOREX. If you pass this program then you are qualified to trade FOREX. This way the FOREX environment...
What makes Forex Traders different to Business startups?.....in any country for that matter?

Are the failures destroying the business industry?
Reply
YYZ
Jun 26, 2020 4:28am — Edited
Permalink
market makers decide about price and timing. in addition to that broker manipulates trades and decides cost of trading, forbid hedge trading, request FIFO and many other bad things....simply it cannot be said that zero sum trading is fair...As of now everything benefits broker...

Retail trader's trading mistake such as lack of knowledge , discipline and patience no one can fix it except trader itself but where it comes to interactions with broker I think it is fixable if regulator is willing to do so.

at least something for trader like to allow hedge trading , increase leverage, remove FIFO request, make easier to complain against broker to regualtor would be good start; unfortunately there is no one to represent retail trader in front of regulators.
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