Edited because of posts on pages 15 and 16. Oct 28th 2009 Edit.
Edited I have also unsubscribed from my own thread. January 22nd 1010. Because of above.
The only reason for me to come back here is for the MT4 brokers list at the bottom of this post.
The capabilities of MT5 were released in a review.
What the third post's picture below really shows is two inequivalent scenarios. The opening of a short term SELL Trade, must be accompanied by the closing of an your BUYs in MT5 is not the equivalent of opening a sell position in MT4 (which is really neutral).
In MT5 you may have to be able to predict an entry with a pending BUY LIMIT in OCO with BUY STOP, OR be present again to re-enter the new BUY order(s) if you have previously counter trend traded with seperate positions in MT4 (which form an overall neutral position that costs you rollover).
A partial method to circumvent this trade operation change would be to allow MetaTrader 5 (MT5) to possess the ability of OCO orders. This means in the scenario below that traders may have both pending BUY STOP and Buy LIMIT orders (or sell) either side of the bid / ask prices. Then if the BUY STOP is taken then the BUY LIMIT is deleted (or the reverse (an OCO)). At the moment this does not appear to be the case.
But MetaTrader 5 (formerly known as MT5) has not done this.
It proves to me that an "upgrade" from MT4, to MetaTrader 5 is a downgrade for ease of multiposition handling.
This forces traders to think in ranges and trends rather than taking the immediate trade that they may see. In doing so it might help some traders with their trade practices.
At the bottom of this post is an MT4 Broker List.
UPDATE: 14 June 2009
1) Trade management made easier: Only ever one position (SELL or BUY but not both) on an instrument pair for forex. Post 8 page 1.
2) EA aided traders may be hindered; As an EAs often trades the same forex pair as the manual trader, if an EA trades opposite to the manual trader, than the trades will be made null, and one trade may be rendered useless. Post 6 page 1.
3) EA aided traders may be hindered; EAs can often trade more than one trade at a time, that is can trade in both directions. If this happens the one currency pair in MT5 the position will be nulled into one. Possibly at a loss.
4) Multiple EA traders are stuffed: if traded on the same forex pair. Post 16 Post 19, page 2.
5) Counter trend traders are hindered partly due to OCO possible ommission: The original trend trade will be cancelled or reduced to a single position by an opposing trade. Hence a solution is to wait for another trend trade, whenever that may occur, or make a prediction for a re-entry which adds to risk Post 11 page 1.
6)Market Depth is a VERY good feature: Post 17 page 2. But market depth in forex is unlikely to be as good as market depth in other markets. As the sale of money to make money would give the tactics of the big banks. As the big banks make up 79.61% of the market, the market depth that MT5 brokers will be giving will be many times better than present but not as good as other markets. Post 50 page 4.
7) Martingale Strategies: In the scaling up and scaling down idea there will be no problems, in the fact that most MT4 Martingale systems used scaling up and down in both directions, so that trades would be taken as one overall position yes they are hindered. As take profit of trades in the wrong direction may have to be taken early. Posts on page 3
8) MT4 styled code for OCO: Hanover supplies useful code. Post 42 page 3.
9) Normally a single net order can replicate all other orders exactly, but NOT always: "Any scenario at any given point is ultimately nothing more than a net position, and can be replicated by a single order" said by commenter. "But Not true. There are scenarios when the market can be moving so fast that it can hit both your buy and sell orders and you can tp on the server for both before you have a chance to put in another order." Each post is on page 3 post 44 and 4 and post post 52 Market position means nothing if your balance is going down because of it.
10) Best option if we only have MT5 brokers: Best is to have multiple accounts with different brokers or sub accts with the same broker if they allow you to pursue your strategies effectively. Post 19 Page 2.
Updated 21st June, 2009
11) Two links given about MQL5 coding in MT5: Excellence in coding environment, code execution speed, code similarity to C++, code debugging and coding versatility are emphasised. However the one thing that do suggest is significantly different (they don't suggest bad of course) is what this thread deals about, with this quote from one of those 2 links, "Q: What is the syntax's difference between MQL4 and MQL5? A: It may be difference between OrderSend (MQL4) and OrderSend (MQL5) function calls. But this is no matter of MQL5 syntax - it is just feature of Metatrader 5 trading platform." In other words the programming could handle MT4 tradering, if MT5 brokers could enable the platform to do so. Page 5 post 66.
Updated 2nd July, 2009
12) MQL5 would be backwards compatible if MT5 developers wanted it to be: OOP is a supplemental programming paradigm, not a different one. C++ is designed to be backwards compatable with ANSI C. No, this was done for the brokers not the traders.... ... So just to clarify for a hack programmer, MQL5 would be backwards compatible with MQL4 if metatrader developers were wanting to make it so????... ...Yes, there is no excuse in regards to language compatibility.... Page 5 Posts 73 to 75.
13) MQ and MT5 brokers can read a traders source code -- Viscious rumour or a debunking truth: I would ask Metaquotes and the MT5 broker to give a legal guarantee that this is not true and also ask metaquotes to post a formal reply on this forum thread, I want this thread to be accurate so I will change this update when you do Thank you... page 6 post 81
Updated 6th July 2009
14) FIFO ruling affects the MT4 platform operations: Hinted at not being able to set a take profit and stop loss at the same time on the same overall trade, all because of the way MT4 handles the trade operations behind the scenes. Page 8, post #114.
Updated 15th October 2009
Tadawul fx FF member Onu, states that a response by Tadawul fx is that, Tadawul fx will not change to MT5 as MT4 is better posted on this link.
Here is a list of MT4 brokers that have not downgraded to being MT5 brokers and can therefore allow counter trend trading without the added difficulties. I am afraid that the NFA trade rules have a similar inhibitor. Hence there are no USA registered brokers, sorry about that. I will endeavour to keep this MT4 broker list free of any MT5 broker:
I do not know the credibility of any of these firms or if they are actually registered in the countries that they are based in. However, all I am doing is putting a list together to give people options that do not involve MT5 Brokers. If there are errors please feel free to post corrections. If you know of other MT4 brokers with no indication of heading towards MT5 please post with brokers name and country.
Australia
FXCM Australia forextrading.com.au
AxisODL
ForexFS-Forex Financial Services
GOMarketsaus.com
Belize
GCI Financial
Global Clearing Group
British Virgin Islands
e-Global Trade & Finance Group
MBCFX-Multiple Banks Clearing
Neuimex
Real Trade Group
Canada
FX Clearing
InvestTechFX
Cyprus
FCMarket
FXPro.com
GIGFX
LiteForex
Prime4x
Windsor Brokers
German
Varengold Bank FX
direktbroker.de / possibly linked to Trading-House.net
Kuwait
Arab Financial Brokers (K.S.C.C)
Swiss International (are actually based in Kuwait, I think)
New Zealand
KVB Kunlun(Registered in NewZealand and Hong Kong, Chinese owned)
LatitudeFX
Russia
BroCo
Forex4you
InstaForex
EuroForex
Exness
Switzerland
C.I.M Banque
Fibo Group
Masterforex
MIG Investments
SFXB-SwissFXBroker GmbH
TadawulFX
Ukraine
Fin Market
Forex Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
GTL Trading
NTWO Capital Markets
PronetFX (ecn)
Uni-FX
FXCBS
United Kingdom
ActivTrades
Admiral Markets
Alpari UK
Foreign Exchange Clearing House(FXCH)
Forex
FXM Financial Group
FXCM England www.fxcm.co.uk/
ODLMarkets
Murphy&Williams Financial Group
TradersvoiceFX (also have a USA possibly NFA regulated, unless the British base is registered separately to the US base)
Pro Finance Group Inc (PFGFX)
USA
IBFX seem to have found a work around the NFA whilst still complying, there are some trade recording difficulties attached though. Page 9 Post 121.
The Collective FX - Have no need for registration as they do not trade against their clients. Completely ecn without any substantial fees.
MBTrading - Although based on the west coast of USA, do not say who they are registered with the NFA or not. But as they do not trade against their clients they do not require registration.
Other Countries or Unsure of which country.
FXcast
FXOpen
Gallant FX They are GMT +1, unsure of who owns them. Linked to Sunspot Capital for funds holding. Their MT4 platform allows heding which implies that they are not NFA related.
Pro-Forex
Varengold Bank FX
Taurus Global Markets(TGM)
Forex Metal
X-Trade Brokers
Global Forex Now
FX Trading
Alma Forex
NordMarkets (ecn) info on the broker Post 102 page 7, and page 8 post 107
ODL Japan www.odls.co.jp/
If you know of an MT4 broker that is not on this list and has no plans to downgrade to being an MT5 broker, just add a comment at the end of this thread. I will try to update this MT5 broker free list...
To be fair there is a link in post #3 where I read the about MT5.
This is who I believe are NFA regulated brokers. Because they are NFA regulated this means they are more likely to want to be MT5 brokers. Hence whether they have MT4 or MT5 makes little difference:
Alpari US LLC
Apex FX Trading
FastBrokersFX
Forex Trading Edge
Forex.com
FXCM
FXDD
FXLite work with FXDD and their registration with the NFA is pending.
Global Futures Exchange & Trading Co., Inc.
IBFX - Interbank FX
IKON GM Royal Division
OneCorpFX - OCFX
PFGBEST
Tradeview Forex
Edited I have also unsubscribed from my own thread. January 22nd 1010. Because of above.
The only reason for me to come back here is for the MT4 brokers list at the bottom of this post.
The capabilities of MT5 were released in a review.
What the third post's picture below really shows is two inequivalent scenarios. The opening of a short term SELL Trade, must be accompanied by the closing of an your BUYs in MT5 is not the equivalent of opening a sell position in MT4 (which is really neutral).
In MT5 you may have to be able to predict an entry with a pending BUY LIMIT in OCO with BUY STOP, OR be present again to re-enter the new BUY order(s) if you have previously counter trend traded with seperate positions in MT4 (which form an overall neutral position that costs you rollover).
A partial method to circumvent this trade operation change would be to allow MetaTrader 5 (MT5) to possess the ability of OCO orders. This means in the scenario below that traders may have both pending BUY STOP and Buy LIMIT orders (or sell) either side of the bid / ask prices. Then if the BUY STOP is taken then the BUY LIMIT is deleted (or the reverse (an OCO)). At the moment this does not appear to be the case.
But MetaTrader 5 (formerly known as MT5) has not done this.
It proves to me that an "upgrade" from MT4, to MetaTrader 5 is a downgrade for ease of multiposition handling.
This forces traders to think in ranges and trends rather than taking the immediate trade that they may see. In doing so it might help some traders with their trade practices.
At the bottom of this post is an MT4 Broker List.
UPDATE: 14 June 2009
1) Trade management made easier: Only ever one position (SELL or BUY but not both) on an instrument pair for forex. Post 8 page 1.
2) EA aided traders may be hindered; As an EAs often trades the same forex pair as the manual trader, if an EA trades opposite to the manual trader, than the trades will be made null, and one trade may be rendered useless. Post 6 page 1.
3) EA aided traders may be hindered; EAs can often trade more than one trade at a time, that is can trade in both directions. If this happens the one currency pair in MT5 the position will be nulled into one. Possibly at a loss.
4) Multiple EA traders are stuffed: if traded on the same forex pair. Post 16 Post 19, page 2.
5) Counter trend traders are hindered partly due to OCO possible ommission: The original trend trade will be cancelled or reduced to a single position by an opposing trade. Hence a solution is to wait for another trend trade, whenever that may occur, or make a prediction for a re-entry which adds to risk Post 11 page 1.
6)Market Depth is a VERY good feature: Post 17 page 2. But market depth in forex is unlikely to be as good as market depth in other markets. As the sale of money to make money would give the tactics of the big banks. As the big banks make up 79.61% of the market, the market depth that MT5 brokers will be giving will be many times better than present but not as good as other markets. Post 50 page 4.
7) Martingale Strategies: In the scaling up and scaling down idea there will be no problems, in the fact that most MT4 Martingale systems used scaling up and down in both directions, so that trades would be taken as one overall position yes they are hindered. As take profit of trades in the wrong direction may have to be taken early. Posts on page 3
8) MT4 styled code for OCO: Hanover supplies useful code. Post 42 page 3.
9) Normally a single net order can replicate all other orders exactly, but NOT always: "Any scenario at any given point is ultimately nothing more than a net position, and can be replicated by a single order" said by commenter. "But Not true. There are scenarios when the market can be moving so fast that it can hit both your buy and sell orders and you can tp on the server for both before you have a chance to put in another order." Each post is on page 3 post 44 and 4 and post post 52 Market position means nothing if your balance is going down because of it.
10) Best option if we only have MT5 brokers: Best is to have multiple accounts with different brokers or sub accts with the same broker if they allow you to pursue your strategies effectively. Post 19 Page 2.
Updated 21st June, 2009
11) Two links given about MQL5 coding in MT5: Excellence in coding environment, code execution speed, code similarity to C++, code debugging and coding versatility are emphasised. However the one thing that do suggest is significantly different (they don't suggest bad of course) is what this thread deals about, with this quote from one of those 2 links, "Q: What is the syntax's difference between MQL4 and MQL5? A: It may be difference between OrderSend (MQL4) and OrderSend (MQL5) function calls. But this is no matter of MQL5 syntax - it is just feature of Metatrader 5 trading platform." In other words the programming could handle MT4 tradering, if MT5 brokers could enable the platform to do so. Page 5 post 66.
Updated 2nd July, 2009
12) MQL5 would be backwards compatible if MT5 developers wanted it to be: OOP is a supplemental programming paradigm, not a different one. C++ is designed to be backwards compatable with ANSI C. No, this was done for the brokers not the traders.... ... So just to clarify for a hack programmer, MQL5 would be backwards compatible with MQL4 if metatrader developers were wanting to make it so????... ...Yes, there is no excuse in regards to language compatibility.... Page 5 Posts 73 to 75.
13) MQ and MT5 brokers can read a traders source code -- Viscious rumour or a debunking truth: I would ask Metaquotes and the MT5 broker to give a legal guarantee that this is not true and also ask metaquotes to post a formal reply on this forum thread, I want this thread to be accurate so I will change this update when you do Thank you... page 6 post 81
Updated 6th July 2009
14) FIFO ruling affects the MT4 platform operations: Hinted at not being able to set a take profit and stop loss at the same time on the same overall trade, all because of the way MT4 handles the trade operations behind the scenes. Page 8, post #114.
Updated 15th October 2009
Tadawul fx FF member Onu, states that a response by Tadawul fx is that, Tadawul fx will not change to MT5 as MT4 is better posted on this link.
MT4 Brokers / MT5 Broker Free List
Do you know of another (non-MT5 broker) MT4 broker NOT regulated by NFA? Reply to the thread.Here is a list of MT4 brokers that have not downgraded to being MT5 brokers and can therefore allow counter trend trading without the added difficulties. I am afraid that the NFA trade rules have a similar inhibitor. Hence there are no USA registered brokers, sorry about that. I will endeavour to keep this MT4 broker list free of any MT5 broker:
I do not know the credibility of any of these firms or if they are actually registered in the countries that they are based in. However, all I am doing is putting a list together to give people options that do not involve MT5 Brokers. If there are errors please feel free to post corrections. If you know of other MT4 brokers with no indication of heading towards MT5 please post with brokers name and country.
Australia
FXCM Australia forextrading.com.au
AxisODL
ForexFS-Forex Financial Services
GOMarketsaus.com
Belize
GCI Financial
Global Clearing Group
British Virgin Islands
e-Global Trade & Finance Group
MBCFX-Multiple Banks Clearing
Neuimex
Real Trade Group
Canada
FX Clearing
InvestTechFX
Cyprus
FCMarket
FXPro.com
GIGFX
LiteForex
Prime4x
Windsor Brokers
German
Varengold Bank FX
direktbroker.de / possibly linked to Trading-House.net
Kuwait
Arab Financial Brokers (K.S.C.C)
Swiss International (are actually based in Kuwait, I think)
New Zealand
KVB Kunlun(Registered in NewZealand and Hong Kong, Chinese owned)
LatitudeFX
Russia
BroCo
Forex4you
InstaForex
EuroForex
Exness
Switzerland
C.I.M Banque
Fibo Group
Masterforex
MIG Investments
SFXB-SwissFXBroker GmbH
TadawulFX
Ukraine
Fin Market
Forex Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
GTL Trading
NTWO Capital Markets
PronetFX (ecn)
Uni-FX
FXCBS
United Kingdom
ActivTrades
Admiral Markets
Alpari UK
Foreign Exchange Clearing House(FXCH)
Forex
FXM Financial Group
FXCM England www.fxcm.co.uk/
ODLMarkets
Murphy&Williams Financial Group
TradersvoiceFX (also have a USA possibly NFA regulated, unless the British base is registered separately to the US base)
Pro Finance Group Inc (PFGFX)
USA
IBFX seem to have found a work around the NFA whilst still complying, there are some trade recording difficulties attached though. Page 9 Post 121.
The Collective FX - Have no need for registration as they do not trade against their clients. Completely ecn without any substantial fees.
MBTrading - Although based on the west coast of USA, do not say who they are registered with the NFA or not. But as they do not trade against their clients they do not require registration.
Other Countries or Unsure of which country.
FXcast
FXOpen
Gallant FX They are GMT +1, unsure of who owns them. Linked to Sunspot Capital for funds holding. Their MT4 platform allows heding which implies that they are not NFA related.
Pro-Forex
Varengold Bank FX
Taurus Global Markets(TGM)
Forex Metal
X-Trade Brokers
Global Forex Now
FX Trading
Alma Forex
NordMarkets (ecn) info on the broker Post 102 page 7, and page 8 post 107
ODL Japan www.odls.co.jp/
If you know of an MT4 broker that is not on this list and has no plans to downgrade to being an MT5 broker, just add a comment at the end of this thread. I will try to update this MT5 broker free list...
To be fair there is a link in post #3 where I read the about MT5.
This is who I believe are NFA regulated brokers. Because they are NFA regulated this means they are more likely to want to be MT5 brokers. Hence whether they have MT4 or MT5 makes little difference:
Alpari US LLC
Apex FX Trading
FastBrokersFX
Forex Trading Edge
Forex.com
FXCM
FXDD
FXLite work with FXDD and their registration with the NFA is pending.
Global Futures Exchange & Trading Co., Inc.
IBFX - Interbank FX
IKON GM Royal Division
OneCorpFX - OCFX
PFGBEST
Tradeview Forex