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  #25  
Old Aug 28, 2009 4:13am
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This is a part of VSA.......nothin new!
Dont get me wrong...I would love to here more....

You wrote;
CONGESTION(Balance)>>TREND(Finding new value)>>CONGESTION(New level attained and finding balance again).

Vsa rule;
Accumulation(buyers coming)>>MARK UP(Finding new value)>>DISTRIBUTION(sellers coming)>>MARK DOWN(Finding new value)
This is rinse and repeat proces, hapens all the time....supply versus demand...it is how the markets work.

Regards
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Old Aug 28, 2009 5:59am
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Dont know will this help, but market is a perfect beast.....
(in the past I thought it is random....boy, what a mistake...lol)

If it isnt perfect, you got a arbitrage opportunity, and those occurances is rare and impossible for little retail traders to profit from.......
but maybe you can profit from market perfection!??
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Old Aug 28, 2009 8:54am
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Skfx.....are you saying that you cant do it without good orderbook!??
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Old Aug 29, 2009 5:50am
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Thumbs up

Im getting closer and closer......I like the writing style of sfkx....
it is like some puzzle.....you need to combine this thread with some other dark "bold" members.....


As with everything in life,it's what you DON'T see that makes the difference.It's not the graphics on your chart,it's the WHITE SPACE on your chart.
You need to understand the WHITE SPACE and what's in it.


Understand this and it's game over.
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Old Aug 29, 2009 8:24am
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This is a last Q Im going to post here, and it is adresed to skfx, and it is all I need to start thinking the right way!
Could you trade without a charts!??

Regards
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Old Aug 30, 2009 4:52am
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This has nothing to do with the order books......
Do you realy think that you can get one!???
I dont think so.
They are talking about inefficiences!!!
What is inefficient in order books???

They talk about one way market......this is happening after consolidation and some stop hunt play, and news times.
I think that the answer is in white space...LOL
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Old Aug 31, 2009 1:18pm
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Dealers usually aggressively price only the side where they want to trade.
Dealers who wants to buy quote high bid prices to encourage sellers to
sell to them! They also quote high ask prices to discourage buyers to buy
from them!

All you need to know in two sentences.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 7:29am
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The intention of a stop-loss is to dump a position that the trader thinks will suffer further loses. But if a trader truly believes that the security will suffer further losses, how can they ethically sell it to another human being?
A stop-loss order is just an automatic scheme to find the greater fool and a stop hunter is just a means of making a greater fool out of someone who was seeking a greater fool.
If you are choosing not to hide your orders with all the tools and different order types you have at your disposal, I think that's a mistake on your part. It's a fair game that they are only doing this when ever people are willing to open their hands. It's like a poker game. If you are willing to open your cards to other players you don't expect them not to use that information to their advantage, after all everybody is trying to make money. Also on the flip side since you know what they are doing, it's also a fair game that you can model this behavior and make money whenever they are trying to push the markets.
I believe it's individual's responsibility to do their work ahead before trading these markets to understand how everybody trade and how that effects your trading.
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Old Sep 5, 2009 3:59am
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I want to add a few things cos this is going in wrong direction for some of folks here....Skfx has made a great job here......he made a bunch of guys here to think realy hard, and I think that was his main intention.

Do not take a statement about one way market seriously,
he was refering to breaking of buys & sells equilibrium, and when that happens, you could say that market is bound to go in one direction,
based on prevailing orders volume.
Skfx charts were nice explanation of possible order placing and mechanics of them, but if you are just trying to figure out where are the orders placed on your chart based on price action you are just guessing
where are they and how big they are(especialy using forex tick volume).
The one and only way to "know" where and who are placing orders
is examining LEVEL2 data!!! Skfx is talkin about TAPE READING.
Get yourself a TradeStation or some other good platform with level2 data,
few books about tape reading, and start to stare at orders flow for a few months, and you could figure it out!

(this program will not help you much, but you will get the real feel
of what order flow is and how could it help you....just rename all the files to RAR before using winrar).

Regards
Attached Files
File Type: zip CMEfx.part1.zip (1.39 MB, 427 views)
File Type: zip CMEfx.part2.zip (1.39 MB, 306 views)
File Type: zip CMEfx.part3.zip (954.8 KB, 291 views)
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  #434  
Old Sep 5, 2009 6:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipmutt View Post
Sorry, how helpful can a particular broker's level 2 data be in an OTC market, it's an incomplete picture. We're trading spot, right?
Forget about any OTC....this works for stocks!....but you already know that
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  #438  
Old Sep 5, 2009 6:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari View Post
I'm having trouble opening the zip files, anyone know where else I could grab the program from?
This is the program......
http://gamebot.com.ua/cmefx.zip/en/index.html

And this is where program grab info....
http://equivalentswdc.cme.com:443/index.html

Regards
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  #562  
Old Sep 21, 2009 5:15am
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Lol.....whats new!??....level 2......realy.....
Search for SoulTrader @ TL
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Old Sep 25, 2009 5:01pm
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Here.....I coded this for a last 2 weeks....a real orderflow indicator!
Like thread starter said, the answer is behind the chart and
in white space.
Attached Thumbnails
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  #635  
Old Sep 26, 2009 4:25am
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Talking

CFTC.....COT......
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  #645  
Old Sep 26, 2009 3:20pm
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....all the info that I needed...Darkstar, you are the man!!!
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Old Oct 3, 2009 6:16am
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To much deception and mystics here......
Ill rest my case with these links;

http://www.hartleandflow.com/5/techn...ker-in-75.html

http://www.videos.traderslaboratory....ading-Tutorial

And short text;

[Soultrader] 10:33 am: okay lets talk about the tape.. and feel free to ask any questions
[MrPaul] 10:33 am: k
[TinGull] 10:33 am: awesome
[Bfbusa] 10:33 am:
[Soultrader] 10:34 am: just going to tell you how I see the tape. its one of my serious edges in
trading and i recommend every trader to learn it
[Soultrader] 10:34 am: im going to be talking about the YM tape since this is the only contract I
trade
[TinGull] 10:34 am: and any book recommendations would be awesome too
[Soultrader] 10:34 am: sure
[Bfbusa] 10:34 am: I recommend we write a book
[Soultrader] 10:35 am: theres not many tape reading books available.. but make sure to read
everything u can on Jesse Livermore, Humphrey Neill, and Wyckoff
[Soultrader] 10:35 am: I want to write one one day
[Soultrader] 10:35 am: also that Russian author... Vladmir i think
[Soultrader] 10:36 am: the older books talk alot about the ticker tape
[Soultrader] 10:36 am: which is different from the time of sales.. but the concept is the same
[Soultrader] 10:36 am: all they ever did was look for support and resistance and block prints on
tape
[Soultrader] 10:37 am: okay ... the YM tape is alot easier to trade than the ES
[Soultrader] 10:37 am: 10+ lots I consider big guys.. and the tape moves alot slower in my
opinion
[Soultrader] 10:37 am: so I seperate the tape into two columsn

[jperl] 10:38 am: test
[Soultrader] 10:38 am: the left side represents all transactions.. while the right column
represents 10+ lots or more
[Soultrader] 10:39 am: im assuming all of you guys know how to setup this up on your platform?
[Soultrader] 10:39 am: all you need is price and size
[MrPaul] 10:39 am: yea
[jperl] 10:40 am: no
[Soultrader] 10:40 am: ok lets talk about litte guys vs big guys
[Soultrader] 10:40 am: Jerry.. what platform do you use?
[jperl] 10:40 am: platform?
[Soultrader] 10:40 am: trading software
[jperl] 10:41 am: IB
[Soultrader] 10:41 am: someone told me IB doesnt have a time of sales?
[MrPaul] 10:41 am: they do
[jperl] 10:41 am: it does
[MrPaul] 10:41 am: I thought initially they didn't
[jperl] 10:42 am: or at least my front end does
[MrPaul] 10:42 am: you have to use a third party software to access it
[MrPaul] 10:42 am: they don't offer it in TWS in real time
[Soultrader] 10:42 am: okay... well im not familiar with IB but in TS we can tweak the time of
sales window to show price and size only
[Soultrader] 10:43 am: i seee
[Soultrader] 10:43 am: im not sure I can help you with IB... i never used it
[jperl] 10:43 am: ok
[Soultrader] 10:43 am: okay back to little guys vs big guys
[Soultrader] 10:44 am: the real muscle is the right hand column known as the big guys
[Bfbusa] 10:44 am: ss ym 13
[Soultrader] 10:44 am: however, you can not disrespect the little guys
[Soultrader] 10:44 am: they will create momentum as they are usually late getting into the move
[Soultrader] 10:44 am: for example
[Soultrader] 10:45 am: lets say price ddeclines towards the previous days low.... first you will
see big lots or big guys stepping in
[Soultrader] 10:45 am: then you will see smaller lots like 10, 15 lots
[Soultrader] 10:45 am: then followed by single digit lots.. or little guys
[Soultrader] 10:46 am: this can fuel momentum and even a short covering can turn into a decent
rally
[Soultrader] 10:46 am: the big boys are prepared in advance to buy at certain levels so many
times u might see price drop below S1 a couple ticks and then reverse
[Soultrader] 10:46 am: they may be buying on the way down
[Soultrader] 10:47 am: okay.. with this in mind.. lets talk about timing entries
[Soultrader] 10:48 am: if youre good you can buy with the big boys...... but i try to enter before
the 10-15 lots come in and before the little guys start buying
[Soultrader] 10:48 am: so try to be the second group in
[Soultrader] 10:48 am: by the time the fourth group or little guys start buying.. im already
dumping half
[Soultrader] 10:49 am: sometimes you will see all red... but with no decline
[Soultrader] 10:49 am: this indicates strong support
[Soultrader] 10:49 am: someone is buying on the way down..
[Soultrader] 10:50 am: did i lose anyone?
[TinGull] 10:50 am: nope
[Soultrader] 10:50 am: okay good
[Soultrader] 10:50 am: lets talk about the flow of the tape
[Soultrader] 10:50 am: this is very important
[MrPaul] 10:50 am: k
[Soultrader] 10:51 am: when there is good flow.... there is good price movement.. when tape is
caught in traffic, you want to step aside
[Soultrader] 10:52 am: the flow confirms your position.. if you are long, you want to see tape
running fast and smooth
[Soultrader] 10:52 am: once it starts to stall, you want to be exiting portions
[Soultrader] 10:52 am: vice versa for shorts
[Soultrader] 10:53 am: its a very interesting thing to watch..... u can clearly see the tape hault
[TinGull] 10:53 am: like right now
[MrPaul] 10:53 am: yeah good point
[Soultrader] 10:53 am: yea no point trading right now
[MrPaul] 10:53 am: thats great
[Soultrader] 10:54 am: price will usually hault... spend a little time at a pivot and then you should
seee the right column turning green
[Soultrader] 10:54 am: this can indicate a reversal
[Soultrader] 10:57 am: okay lets talk about price rejection vs price acceptance
[Soultrader] 10:57 am: with the YM... if youre not careful itll fake alot of new traders out every
single time
[Soultrader] 10:58 am: because it likes to take out the lows or pivots by a few ticks and then
reverse
[Soultrader] 10:58 am: this is where I like to watch for price acceptance or price rejection
[Soultrader] 10:58 am: lets say the YM breaks above VAL.... make sure to check if there are big
lots coming in a few ticks above it
[Soultrader] 10:59 am: if you see 10+ lots on the buy side.... there is price acceptance
[Soultrader] 10:59 am: but if you only see the little guys buying and then all of a sudden 10+ lots
on the right column in red all over the place... this is a warning signal
[MrPaul] 11:00 am: ahh
[Soultrader] 11:00 am: takes a little practice but youll be able to judge supply vs demand from
tape
[Soultrader] 11:00 am: u can use this same concept to play breakouts
[Soultrader] 11:00 am: lets say price is hugging the VAL or VAH or any pivot
[Bfbusa] 11:00 am: out -10
[Soultrader] 11:01 am: and there are no sellers on tape but plenty of 10+ lots with no price
advancement
[Soultrader] 11:01 am: you can usually anticipate a breakout
[Soultrader] 11:01 am: its a powerful setup
[Soultrader] 11:02 am: watch price trade at the resistance... as if it was hugging it... watch the
tape and you should see more demand
[Soultrader] 11:02 am: you can usually get in before the breakout and feed it to the breakout
traders
[Bfbusa] 11:02 am: Jemes please save tranascript
[Soultrader] 11:02 am: yes im saving it no worries
[Soultrader] 11:03 am: okay lets talk about false moves
[Soultrader] 11:03 am: this is a hard one.. you need good tape reading skills and memory for this
[Soultrader] 11:04 am: lets say price advanced 20 points
[Soultrader] 11:04 am: but during the entire 20 point move... you hardly see any big lots coming
in
[Soultrader] 11:05 am: one sec... watch tape now.... its running faster
[Soultrader] 11:05 am: its not the greatest looking tape but improvement from before
[Soultrader] 11:06 am: anyways.... getting back to my point, if you seea lot of single lot traders
moving price, expect a reversal
[Soultrader] 11:06 am: dont jump in with longs
[Soultrader] 11:06 am: time your entry for a short setup
[Trading Room]: Gordon G. has entered at 11:06 am
[Gordon G.] 11:07 am: gm
[MrPaul] 11:07 am: gm
[Soultrader] 11:07 am: gm
[Soultrader] 11:07 am: i guess we all missed that r2 piovot trade
[Soultrader] 11:07 am: nice 30pts right there
[MrPaul] 11:08 am: it's continuing the trend from yesterday
[MrPaul] 11:08 am: late yesterday
[Soultrader] 11:08 am: anyone have any questions on tape?
[MrPaul] 11:08 am: do you ever see large lots comming through and then a swift reversal?
[MrPaul] 11:08 am: as in equally larger lots absorbing the move
[Soultrader] 11:09 am: you mean large lots on the ask and then a reversal?
[MrPaul] 11:09 am: or is that rare?
[MrPaul] 11:09 am: yeah
[Soultrader] 11:09 am: its rare
[MrPaul] 11:09 am: ok
[Soultrader] 11:09 am: one thing though
[Soultrader] 11:09 am: now that you mentioned it
[Soultrader] 11:09 am: sometimes you can spot out a 100lot trader
[Soultrader] 11:09 am: or even a 80 lot trader
[Soultrader] 11:10 am: what happens is i like to follow this guy... kina like follow the leader
[Bfbusa] 11:10 am: .
[Soultrader] 11:10 am: but then..... u see 80 lots being sold 2 ticks later
[Soultrader] 11:10 am: what does this tell you? this trader thinks hes wrong
[MrPaul] 11:10 am: ahhh
[Soultrader] 11:10 am: i have seen many reversals take place just from this information
[Soultrader] 11:11 am: its pretty amazing
[Soultrader] 11:11 am: just very hard to catch unless you are starting at tape
[Soultrader] 11:11 am: im pretty glued to the tape for the first 60 minutes
[Soultrader] 11:12 am: oh i forgot.. lets talk about bracketing tape
[Soultrader] 11:12 am: now this is for scalpers
[Soultrader] 11:13 am: some of you are familiar with how i start bracketing tape looking for short
term resistance and short term support
[Soultrader] 11:13 am: test
[TinGull] 11:13 am: .
[TinGull] 11:14 am: 115 lot
[TinGull] 11:14 am: holy cow
[Soultrader] 11:14 am: lets say price trades at $5, $5, $6, $6, $7,$6, $5, $7, $5.......... the short
term bracket is $5-$7
[Soultrader] 11:14 am: i have the 115 lot in white
[Soultrader] 11:14 am: meaining?
[TinGull] 11:14 am: no idea
[TinGull] 11:14 am: mine was in blue
[TinGull] 11:14 am: no idea what the blue means either
[Soultrader] 11:15 am: blue as in ask?
[Soultrader] 11:15 am: hahaha
[TinGull] 11:15 am: I have them come through as red and green
[Soultrader] 11:15 am: TS is playing games with us now
[TinGull] 11:15 am: and every sooften blues come through
[TinGull] 11:16 am: what does the white mean?
[Soultrader] 11:16 am: anyways.. i covered pretty much the basics of tape
[Soultrader] 11:16 am: white means in between, which makes no sense for YM
[MrPaul] 11:16 am: yeah what does white mean i see it as inside 768.90 etc
[TinGull] 11:16 am: thats what I think the blue means too...which always confused me with it
being inside of a dollar spread
[Soultrader] 11:17 am: wrines was asking the same question.. no one had an aswer
[Soultrader] 11:17 am: well perhaps that 115 lot was sold at the bid
[Soultrader] 11:18 am: cause it was at 12258 and now we are at 47
[Soultrader] 11:18 am: and i dont think a 115 lot is stupid enough to buy smack at the weekly
pivot resistance
[Soultrader] 11:18 am: who knows though
[Trading Room]: matdog has entered at 11:19 am
[TinGull] 11:19 am: nice to know
[Soultrader] 11:20 am: anybody have any questions?
[Soultrader] 11:20 am: i think im out of things to say
[matdog] 11:20 am: i am late sorry
[Soultrader] 11:20 am: i might get inspired
[Soultrader] 11:20 am: gm matdog
[MrPaul] 11:20 am: i'm chewin on the info
[Soultrader] 11:20 am: no worries i saved a script
[Soultrader] 11:20 am: ill post it in the forums
[Soultrader] 11:21 am: and you can ask questions if u want anytime
[TinGull] 11:21 am: and as soon as my new computer comes that can handle the data inflow
nicely, I'll be chewin on it more to
[Soultrader] 11:21 am: in intraday trading.. tape reading is an serious edge
[matdog] 11:21 am: nice. thanks Soul.
[Soultrader] 11:21 am: because not many traders are tape readers
[Soultrader] 11:21 am: its the purest form of information
[MrPaul] 11:22 am: certainly an edge
[MrPaul] 11:22 am: thanks Soul
[MrPaul] 11:22 am: im sure i'll have more questions
[jperl] 11:22 am: any good reads on this subject
[Soultrader] 11:22 am: in poker.. you can spot a mans tell
[matdog] 11:22 am: does tape rading works all the time?
[Soultrader] 11:22 am: in trading.. you can judge supply vs demand just from tape
[Soultrader] 11:23 am: serious serious edge
[Soultrader] 11:23 am: tape reading will work everytime and will never cease to work
[Soultrader] 11:23 am: every other tool may stop working sometime
[Soultrader] 11:23 am: but tape you can always rely on
[Soultrader] 11:24 am: jperl..i highyl recommend reading Humprhey Neil's "Tape reading and
market tactics"
[Soultrader] 11:25 am: and also the russian author.. let me look it up
[jperl] 11:25 am: ok thanks
[Trading Room]: Gordon G. has left at 11:25 am
[Soultrader] 11:26 am: its called techniques of tape reading by vadym graifer
[Soultrader] 11:26 am: actually not sure if hes russian
[MrPaul] 11:26 am: cool, everybody go click my ads so i can buy some tape reading books

[Soultrader] 11:26 am: hehe
[MrPaul] 11:26 am: lol
[jperl] 11:26 am: I have the Graifer book....I don't see much discussion of tape reading in that one
[Soultrader] 11:27 am: the only real way to learn tape though is to stare at it
[matdog] 11:27 am: Soul, how do you think Chris Schumacher's CD, Techniques of Tape
Reading
[Soultrader] 11:27 am: yea... its hard to find good tape reading books
[Soultrader] 11:27 am: maybe ill write one
[Soultrader] 11:27 am:
[Soultrader] 11:27 am: im not familiar with it matdog
[MrPaul] 11:27 am: i
[MrPaul] 11:27 am: i'll buy one*
[Soultrader] 11:27 am: hehe
[Soultrader] 11:28 am: tape reading is a very hard topic to talk about.. its alot easier to show
visually
[TinGull] 11:28 am: more videos!
[matdog] 11:28 am: I agree.
[Soultrader] 11:29 am: i think Humphrey Neill's book was the originating book that got me
hooked on tape reading
[Soultrader] 11:29 am: haha yea ill make more tape reading videos... its just that my TS keeps
freezing when recording live lately
[Soultrader] 11:29 am: might need more ram
[MrPaul] 11:29 am: do you find the placement of the tape right next to the chart better than
having somewhere else?
[MrPaul] 11:29 am: just do to the ease of darting over from candle to price?
[Soultrader] 11:29 am: yea i like it close to my chart
[MrPaul] 11:30 am: okay
[Soultrader] 11:30 am: yea.. i rely on tape and TICK heavily so I keep them on the same monitor
[Soultrader] 11:30 am: i dont have to move my head
[Soultrader] 11:31 am: i used to just stare at tape and it made no sense
[Soultrader] 11:31 am: after 1 month it still made no sense
[Soultrader] 11:31 am: 2 months... no sense
[Soultrader] 11:31 am: by my 3rd and 4th month.. i was seeing clues
[Soultrader] 11:32 am: test
[Soultrader] 11:32 am: it took me 6-10 months to really understand tape to use it as aan edge
[Soultrader] 11:32 am: im still learning everyday


Regards
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  #724  
Old Oct 3, 2009 3:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudomyo View Post
hi Forexflash,

Thanks for sharing this information. Do you know what software they're running in the video you posted?

TradersLab has a very good VSA section. (I'm sure you already know about this but other people may be interested in checking it out) http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f151/

They don't really have much on price order flow, but this post is worth reading, very informative.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...flow-2222.html

Fudomyo, you can check the platform here; http://www.cqg.com/Products/CQG-Integrated-Client.aspx

Regards
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