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  #593  
Old Sep 24, 2009 5:15am
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Originally Posted by LuboLabo View Post
trading with order flow or tape reding is not to look at the number u can see on order book or time and sale, but when an instrument have a market deep there is the possibility to build indicators that take advantage from that data and cab be read from chart to help to visualize where waht kinda of order take place at certain price level etc.

I use market delta --delta footprints exclusively for my trading of futures. For indexes, currencies, and notes. It's an invaluable tool that allows you to see the order flow and it's effect on price.

Now, while I believe I am trading order flow with MD it is nothing like what these guys are talking about.

These guys are not looking at charts, T&S, and volume trying to piece together where the path of least resistance may be. These guys HAVE the information long before price exposes itself on our charts or DOM.

I understand them not wanting to divulge the information; hell when I found the little edges I do have, I wanted to pull down the shades, turn off the lights, and keep quiet cause I feel like I'm stealing. Totally different from all the other times I thought I found *it*. I'm sure my edges pale in comparison to what they are talking about.

When I read Darkstar a few years ago and he said he didn't use charts it blew me away and I hunted feverishly. I've long since given up the hunt for how they do it because I'm profitable in many other markets which require alot of time, but I've always wanted to know what information they had.
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  #602  
Old Sep 24, 2009 9:07am
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Originally Posted by Scotty B View Post
I don't know if they do. If SKFX emphasizes the speed factor, I assume he is watching time and sales/DOM in realtime and acting quickly on his observations. Time and sales IS orderflow. Depth of market is possible orderflow- a glimpse on the currently available liquidity/trading options. I think these guys use simple futures data to do their analysis, and laugh and laugh when they see us searching for something that does not exist; a chasing of the wind. I read a very intreaging research paper tonight that has convinced me of this.

Gaston said...

You may be right, I don't know.....could be under my nose, hell I could be doing some of it.. I don't know...
I just know I found things that worked well for me so much so that I gave up on that hunt a long time ago, but always wondered what they were looking at...
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  #606  
Old Sep 24, 2009 10:17am
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Originally Posted by Scotty B View Post
Yeah, even simply watching volumes in market delta at the bids and asks..........


I dig everything you say..
Trust me mate, I've been staring @ MD charts for years from 3:30 AM - 3-30PM, I use the Ninja Plugin these days. I've got some pretty solid things I use them for that are built around concrete market mechanics...

With that said, I believe we seeanalyze the effects of the order flow in real time. But I believe the currency order flow experts already have the information that causes these shifts in supplydemand before hand. That's just my personal opinion, I really have no clue what they are looking at.

I just can't imagine NOT HAVING A CHART. Darkstar said no chart.
To not have a chart, you have to have the price levels already beforehand.

Now in the end it's all moot..
Either you are making money or you are not.
However I think all of us enjoy learning all we can.
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  #608  
Old Sep 24, 2009 12:39pm
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Originally Posted by Scotty B View Post
If you think about it, even the dealers at the biggest banks can only know so much......

First off thanks for the conversation, much appreciated. With all due respect I think we are looking at it from 2 different angles. I think you're going bottom up and I'm trying top down.

All we need to know is WHO, WHY, and WHEN.That's it.

If we know WHO is going to make the move, WHY they are making it, and WHEN, then we can put ourselves in position to take advantage of it.. it'll will be all over but the crying and ... and the crying is the resulting order flow and price action we see.

A fukton of money? You would make assloads of money if you knew that.
(4 fuktons = 1 assload)

If we know who, why, and when then we wouldn't care about charts, MD, T&S, DOM"s or anything. It's not like "trading" as we know it.

Gaston said once that most people see a currency as a chart, they don't see the country behind it or the politics, that stuck with me for some reason. These guys don't trade a lot and are real meticulous about picking spots.

I always felt they knew the who, why , and when and that is what I was trying to seek back then-- who, why and when. Order flow, price action, etc I felt was just a byproduct of the who, why , and when.

cheers
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  #638  
Old Sep 26, 2009 7:26am
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Originally Posted by LuboLabo View Post
If you talk about to have informatione about who why and when before those information apper on you feed, you talk maybe about trading the news in depth, or worst insider trading?

Lubo.

I can't really say.
It was just the angle I took back then in the hunt when I hunted.
I was looking for something I didn't know-or an angle I've never taken.

All the information presented is great info and can be used to greatly to increase your chances of survivalsuccess. But to me, it's like yeah ok, we already know this. This is stuff you guys are already know and are applying, so this can't be what they are talking about.

But... maybe that's it...maybe this is stuff people don't apply or use and I'm wrong in assuming most do.
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