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  #1  
Old Aug 27, 2009 8:54am
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Default Behind Price-Orderflow

Hi Peeps,

I will try and make this post short as i have charts that explain my thoughts,i think the saying is:"A picture speaks a thousand words".
I have been staring at charts now for an embarrassing amount of time,so i won't give you the number.But having done this has allowed me to gain some amount of clarity.
Here are a few basic thoughts that i will share and i hope this allows traders to look at charts not in terms of graphics/pixels but in terms of ORDERFLOW.Yes,traders placing orders are what make prices go up and down.Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.
I hope it helps at least ONE trader to grow.


1.A basic understanding of the different participants and why they do what they do.
2.Strategies that these traders use.
3.ALL order types and their use.I know this sounds simple,but when you begin to grasp what orders traders use,why and where,then you may find yourself mixing shoulders with the big boys.
4.The one way market.This is like the roulette wheel that has only black numbers and you get to bet black all day and win.
5.What happens when people get GREEDY and FRIGHTENED.
6.ALWAYS REMEMBER,THIS IS ABOUT MONEY(THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY ON EARTH).Everyone wants a piece of the pie.
When you open up your platform and begin business,every other trader on the planet goes there as you do to make MONEY.Someone will lose and someone will win.If you don't UNDERSTAND you WILL lose.


To be honest,i have read too many posts that seem to be HOCUS-POCUS and much dancing around the subject but not getting straight to the cut.Really though,i should thank anyone who never gave it away,it has allowed me to spend cold dark nights in the corner of my room trying to nut it out.Believe me,you appreciate it somewhat more when you bust your OWN hump.
This may sound amusing but i really hate forums(any forums) and only really come here to post in Shamus's picture thread(relaxation for me lol-btw,nice thread Shamus),i think 90% of my posts are there lol,and also have a look see at the big threads and a few journals.Don't get me wrong,this forum contains posts that are "A" grade 100%,rare,but there nonetheless.
I spend a lot of my time trying to find a way of placing myself in this band(95%-100%)and taking myself from this band(0%-94%).

I will expand on points as i go along,and anyone is also welcome to post advice provided it isn't misleading.I am just trying to help newcomers UNDERSTAND what's important:

ORDERS-this again is another obvious remark but holds more weight than most know.Ever wondered what makes a pin bar?bearish outside bar?any other price bar for that matter, it even makes all types of indicators move around the place?.......its traders placing ORDERS.

This thread will be a discussion about ORDERS.
Who places them?
Why they place them?
Where they place them?


At the end of the day this IS what makes any market go up and down.

Hanover,to be honest bud,there was a thread you were involved in that really set my upstairs room into overdrive lol(don't know the thread) and it was only a sentence or two that got me going,so i will have to give you some credit.
To be honest,i don't know everything,unfortunately lol.
This is about growth,not only for myself but for every other trader out there,lets talk business.
Over the next few days i will add charts with commentary and discuss and expand on points made earlier.
Focus and think about words/sentences/questions in bold type above,this is critical for thread growth.
See i told you it would be a short post lol
Looking forward to it.

Charts are attached for understanding,one of these trades i was in tonight live.

cheers
steve
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  #3  
Old Aug 27, 2009 9:19am
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Default and another

don't worry porkpie,some just won't get it.even if you fed it to them lol
there is someone out there making WAAAAY to much and it needs to be shared around.greedy bastards,no need for that.
i read somewhere,i think bemac maybe,20% of the worlds population posses 80% of the capital.should we not even things out,no?

here's another:
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  #4  
Old Aug 27, 2009 9:25am
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i'm sorry everybody,my son has a special disability and used my FF username to post.please excuse me.i have told him that this will be his first and last post.
porkpie,if my son has let the cat out of the bag then we should all feel ashamed that a small boy has cracked the code lol.
savantism,who would think.

i'm off to bed,its late here in Oz.
again my apologies


cheers
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  #6  
Old Aug 27, 2009 9:27am
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btw,if your good...real good,you'll adapt nonetheless.
take care
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  #12  
Old Aug 27, 2009 11:27am
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@pip
Quote:
(put your son back on immediately!! )
no,no pip,i have no son.i wish i had a savant son who could process data though,it would come in real handy.you don't know anyone btw do you lol?i think maybe you got my joke here,some folk don't see my sense of humour.

@pork
Quote:
calling me a bastard !!
pork,no way bud,not you.i was referring to those with capital to large to image,a little less wouldn't hurt them(a downgrade from aston martin to mercedes-no big deal right?lol).pork sees my sense of humour and i like his lol.

@pip
Quote:
I'd have to question your theory on the motives of the players though....
don't question motives pip.make no mistake,MONEY is on the line.to make money you must strip it from the next guy,otherwise you become the bait.
there is no such thing as play nice in global markets unfortunately lol,
there is a skew towards the guys on the inside and its a big one.you don't see to many retail traders driving aston martins around.

Quote:
1st chart Eur/Usd, that was a reaction to news wasn't it?
pip,it doesn't matter what it was,remember think in terms of orders.i could not care less if it was 911/london bombings/nfp(don't take me wrong here,i'm talking in terms of trading.terrorists are sick).there just traders placing orders or they not?when these traders see that things aren't going to plan then guess what happens,yep you got it,more orders-damage control.one thing leads to another and bam.......an opportunity to play the ALL black roulette wheel lol.step on up folks.

Quote:
but the charts posted aren't the best examples in my opinion.
if i gave the best away then i wouldn't being doing myself any favours,no?
i just gave a little for those who like reading between the lines.
remember about the hump busting i did,i believe everyone should do a little
you deserve everything given when you sit back and realise you spent thousands of hours sitting alone in a dark room till 4am in the morning trying to work the whole riddle out while all your mates where out getting on it lol.

@bird
Quote:
"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."
exactly,the traders that don't see it get it all wrong at the wrong time.

Quote:
I only realised the importance of this when I looked back over hundreds of trades which were stopped out and saw how price reacted after
funny that bird,to limit risk(which is smart)in the end stiffs us due to IMPROPER stop placement and being on the WRONG SIDE to begin with.
i NEVER enter a trade unless i can see the plays,no see play,no play game.simple.there are guys out there that bet one play a year or even over a few years,but when they bet they know their hand and others hand,and squeeze like hell.
imho the average trader bets to often on plays they no nothing about.

Quote:
they showed a high tendency to breakout hard, yet I was only closing out losing positions rather than capitalising upon some of the most profitable market moves.
bingo.you were feeding the move bird,along with many others.hell i was probably doing what you did.
you've got the stops which will feed the move and then switched on traders throw fuel on the fire.that's when you get the MASSIVE extended moves,overload of orders being placed that is skewed big on one side.
find balance,then work out what could throw proceedings out of balance.
when you get congestion forming,then wait till the market shows its hand,if you cannot see the hand crystal clear,then fold.

Quote:
but do these moves need to be manipulated for the opportunities to exist?
No bird they don't imho.it could be genuine market activity or a little sneaky sneaky from the dealers.
i believe that those with 'large' amounts of capital do push it around to suit there needs though,i mean there not going to move the euro from 1.40-1.50 overnight but they do push it at times.everyone needs an income.we just need to be savy enough to level the numbers out some.

@pip
Quote:
likely areas for stops are there for all to see (or apparently not if this is a revelation to some!)
some get to see it all without needing to read between the lines.for the little guy,you need to read between the lines.the market is a book just sit down and read it for what it is.
i get this feeling that this may be a revelation to many traders too pip.
for some unknown reason we begin our trading careers looking at MA's squiggly line,cross over this,dot that,talk about bull@!#*.
basically this sentence was the turning point for me:"hang about,the markets are where traders place orders,what the hell does this crap have to do with anything".
absolutely jack diddly squat,zilch,zero,nothing.

btw,i couldn't sleep due to a pounding headache.i have taken two codapaine forte,so if i am sounding delirious then somebody slap me hard......really hard lol.

cheers
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  #19  
Old Aug 27, 2009 8:37pm
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Well this is interesting.LOL
A few private PM's overnight with grave concerns of me ruining the only way,apparently,to make money in the market.
There is many ways to make money,all i'm doing is breaking the market down to its most pure form.
If your good enough(quick more so),which some will be,you will ALWAYS be one step ahead regardless of whether someone discloses something or not,it's irrelevant.If your a little on edge atm,then there is a very good chance you aren't good enough or quick enough for this game.
Not everyone will be able to trade,that's life.Some get it,some don't.

Guess what,i very much doubt that what i disclose will change ANYTHING whatsoever.
Do you really think that some little player on a public forum is going to change the dynamics of the global markets,haha,what a cracker.
In fact,there will be those that read this thread and go straight back to trading their MA crossover systems.
Do you know why?
Because you have to be READY to GET IT,otherwise she blows straight over your head,big time.

Guys to be honest,the signs have been there since i walked into the factory many years ago.For the most bizarre reason traders on these boards continue to go OVER and OVER and OVER the same @#!* 100's of times and all they have to do is look up at the sign and read the damn thing.Instead they continue to ask questions and to do the same things continually walking around bumping into each other,it drives me insane.
This is the reason i started this thread.
Everyone is noticing lately that traders on these boards are doing the same material again and again it is starting to get on my nerves,as well as others by the looks of things lol.
I think good old Albert said it best about actions and insanity.I won't quote, you know the deal.

Here's the truth,the more you put on your charts the further away you will be from the truth.period.
But,people just cannot help themselves,they will go ahead and put things on their chart.Now don't get me wrong,i'm not saying they won't make money,but.........

As with everything in life,it's what you DON'T see that makes the difference.It's not the graphics on your chart,it's the WHITE SPACE on your chart.
You need to understand the WHITE SPACE and what's in it.

Understand this and it's game over.

Last night i slept about 5 mins in total,tossing and turning all night,pumping headache,trying to come to an agreement with myself as to what i should disclose and what i shouldn't.
To tell you quite honestly,if your ready,the information i have given is PLENTY enough to see you through.

@FXS
Quote:
Nice to not have another thread about analyzing lines on the surface of the water.
LOL.
As stated above Surf,this is what has driven me to lay some of it out there.......round and round,over and over,c'mon everyone,what the hell?!!
Over the last year or so,whenever i visit FF,i end up saying to myself when going through threads:"oh c'mon guys,not this again.Stephen this is the last time you come here lol".It gets a bit much after awhile.Hence,i spend my time at Shamus's picture thread.Shamus on me
I contribute and only open my mouth when i have something i feel is helpful,otherwise i shut my big one and listen and learn.The market,she speaks to me in tongues and i know her well now.

@FXEZ
Quote:
This is what is going on as a constant subplot under the surface.
Exactly.It's under the surface.Anything underneath cannot be seen.It's something that is not visual,you cannot see it.If you cannot see it and you don't know it,then you won't look for it and you will miss the damn thing EVERY time.
It's what you DON'T SEE that makes ALL the difference.

Picture this:
We all know what's underneath the ocean surface....sharky sharky.Now how do we know that,well someone went diving and saw them or someone unfortunately had a run in with one and created a bad experience.We know they are there(underneath-we don't need to SEE one to know they are there now).
Say you don't know about sharks(not a chance but....).You go swimming right?Guess what,it maybe the last time you get to skinny dip.Not knowing is a KILLER. Say no more.I'm a pilot,same goes with carbon monoxide,if you don't know,google it and you will find out that if your a pilot,not knowing is a killer.Not knowing will cost you big time.

Quote:
A question for you guys: what is the minimum timeframe that you see this type of "orderflow" on or do you see it on all timeframes? It seems to be most prevalent on the timeframes looked at by the most traders (15+minutes) since it takes advantage of the pop and drop type maneuver.
markets move from CONGESTION to TREND and back to CONGESTION.They do this over and over again,never stops.
Timeframe needs to show the dynamic below:
CONGESTION(Balance)>>TREND(Finding new value)>>CONGESTION(New level attained and finding balance again).This is the market,it's what it does.Never stops stops doing it.It's the flow of orders.

@Zkf
Quote:
why sharing this edge?


coz I am greedy bastard, and I have to find other ones since your publishing today.
LOL
The question you have to ask yourself Z is this:"Am i good enough to adapt by increasing the SPEED at which i process orderflow?"
That's your edge once you 'understand'.It's the SPEED at which you PROCESS ORDERFLOW.Understanding is not your edge.

You need to read between the lines quicker than the next guy,that's all.
People here keep walking around it and won't pick the damn thing up.It's there,pick it up!!!!!LOL
I don't think that there is anything i have experienced in life that has driven me to so much insanity as watching the insane one go round and round.Drives me nuts!!!!!
Anyways,catch you all later.I have some painting around the house to do and i really hate painting.If i am in a bad mood later on,then you know why lol.
Keep the posts up guys,keep searching and you shall find.

Take care peeps.
Cheers
Steve
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  #20  
Old Aug 27, 2009 8:48pm
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@pip.

no not tight pip,but close lol
cheers
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  #27  
Old Aug 28, 2009 5:14am
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@Goose
Quote:
"Know what other traders are thinking - and you can position yourself to profit from their actions."
That's the score.
Thanks for the article too,it was a good read.

The below quote is from the article,understanding this quote puts you right in the mix:
Quote:
pattern failures.
When anybody trades and places their bet,there is a point at which enough is enough and they need to cover(damage control).It doesn't matter who they are or how big(the bigger the better though).
When the above plays out,orderflow skews heavily to one side,you process the orderflow with SPEED and your the first one in.Before the next guy even knows what's going on your already up 50p,downed the breakfast and read the sports section in the paper.Get yourself in front.

You don't want to know how many edges there truly are,you would be sickened.
Some folk would kill for one.

@flash
Quote:
This is a part of VSA.......nothin new!
Ever heard of this saying flash:"You don't know what you don't know".
It doesn't really matter if it's new or not,what matters is if it is new to YOU.
To be honest i KNOW there are things that i don't know yet,but you can bet your bottom dollar,i WILL find out.

Quote:
Dont get me wrong...I would love to here more....
I bet you would flash lol.
You know i was outside painting today,not feeling well and i was thinking of how deep i could go with regards disclosure of certain inefficiencies(there are quite a few that i know of).
To tell you guys quite honestly,what has been presented here thus far has gone WAAAAY beyond the call of duty.If i go deeper i will have some disgruntled traders looking down at me,I have already received PM'S.This is serious business.
If i kept going with charts and commentary as at the beginning then it would be one edge after another hitting the forum.
My old man today says to me:"You're not going to tell them are you?".
I think to myself:Sheesh,well to be honest i have handed over a lot already lol.Some may not think so,but when you find out yourself you will come to the conclusion that i basically gave you too much.

Ever wondered why threads on orderflow die quickly?

There happens to be reason.
Take it easy.

Cheers
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  #28  
Old Aug 28, 2009 5:16am
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Quote:
Orderflow is the only thing that matters.
You get this Jig and like i said.....Game Over!!

Cheers
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  #30  
Old Aug 28, 2009 5:39am
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Quote:
I use a scalping system that works on price action to take 20-30 pips each day, I don't use any tools, just plot what I see.
Hi Bleek,

Price action is half the equation the other half you cannot see.
The trouble for most is that the half you cannot see is the half you wish you could.

You will need a very very good understanding of the market to see what many cannot.
Once you attain this understanding,finding edges won't be your problem,your problem will be having too many to use.

I see now looking back why most traders don't even have a hope.
I say that but here's the deal: DON'T EVER QUIT!!!.
Keep your head down Bleek and keep learning.
That's what life and trading are all about,if you continue to learn you WILL grow.

Cheers
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  #45  
Old Aug 28, 2009 7:38am
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@Flash
Quote:
(in the past I thought it is random....boy, what a mistake...lol)
The market is NOT random,it's so for from random it's not funny.And yes Flash,if you think it is then you are making a big boo boo.
Those who say it is random will be a little embarrassed when they find out the truth.

@mp777
Quote:
An excellent thread in the making here, thanks skfx.
No worries Chris.My pleasure bud.
I can only go so far though and you will found out why when i reply to Scotty.

@Goose
Quote:
Is this getting in the micro structure of the market then?
Goose,traders of all types have to do what they have to do...trade.They place orders.
For the big players,they NEED to place orders,they have no choice.You and I though,it's more of a want thing.We are not forced to do business unless we want too.This is an edge in itself,another one.Think about what this means.
Hint:we get too watch the big nutcases push capital around.But we need not get involved until we know the hand.
Ever thought you could trade without a stop loss?(not recommending this.i do use stops but just as a terrorist type thing if you catch my drift or internet crash).
Once you KNOW and UNDERSTAND,using a stop seems silly because price can only go ONE WAY.

It's your job to find out:
Who's trading?
Why are they trading?
How are they trading?and;
Where are they doing business?

How can i capitalise on the answers i found to the questions above?

@Scotty
Quote:
Are you refering to the order book or simple volume data in the unseen half?
order book.
I had a member here PM me regarding OANDA'S order details but these will do you no good.

Quote:
There is a member here at FF named Gaston who does not post very often but claims to be an orderflow trader.
Ah yes,Gaston,now i remember.Yes,he has it,and he won't give much away.Darkstar has it also.You will find that Gaston,Darkstar and myself KNOW.There will be others.
If i divulged certain details i may annoy the two fellows i have listed and probably a few others also(like i said i have had PM's).I must ensure i do not go too far with this.
Look,don't worry if you don't GET IT.If you remain around long enough there may be a glimmer of hope,just a glimmer.
These guys will agree with me that the market is NOT random,it is inefficient.Most will never find these inefficiencies.That's the way it is though.I cannot help it.
If everyone knew where would we be?

Quote:
I notice that you do use charts in referace to the orderflow, but like Gaston you mention this unseen piece of the puzzle.
Scotty,you don't need the charts believe me.

Guys,i hope that you don't get too crusty with me if i start sounding a little vague or dancing around the ball without picking it up.
My job here is to get you guys to think OUTSIDE the box.Believe me,out side the box is where it's all going on.Most retail traders find themselves INSIDE the box.....in darkness.
There are institutions making massive amounts of capital and you guys just need to read between the lines to cut some out.

I will catch you guys later.I have this funny feeling i am coming down with something.Headache yesterday,sore throat today and sneezing...just great
I hope it's not swine lol.
Take it easy.

Cheers
sk
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  #104  
Old Aug 29, 2009 7:38am
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Ok,just as i expected....a page blowout.I hate when that happens lol.It becomes hard to reply to everyone individually.Anyways not to worry,it's good you guys do you OWN thinking,your development depends upon it.You will grow quicker and have a better understanding if you do this.
Never let anyone do the thinking for you.It will stunt your growth.

If this thread achieves just one thing,that is,not talking about anything else that has been repeated like maybe a million times before on the forum,then I'm a happy camper.And when I'm happy you guys will be happy lol.

Ok,i like illustrations,plus they have a habit of sticking on you.So that's what i do.

I have read through the thread and notice since my last post,certain things that i dislike have been mentioned.(don't worry if you find you are one of the offenders,i won't hate you for it because it's not your fault,you have been programmed that way).

Talking about %ROI per week/month/year,setting annual profit targets and talking pip returns really get me going.....you guys ever see a monkey get mad.I remember seeing them at the zoo as a child,and boy,i will never forget that.Not pretty lol.
Let us please not mention this again in this thread.It will contain quality content top to bottom.If anyone would like to set airy fairy targets in the sky,please do start your own thread and then you can discuss something that's not only irrelevant but down right DESTRUCTIVE.I will explain why now.

You guys(btw,when i say guys,I'm talking both sexes.I don't want to upset the ladies.It's a bit like the mad monkey thing when you upset the ladies lol)ever watch Formula1 racing?
This sport is ALL about EXECUTION.Machine handling,lines into corners,gear changes,braking you name it.(sorry ladies for the car talk,i just couldn't help myself lol)
When these guys drive,they are not worried about looking down at the speed at which they are going,their focus is upon impeccable EXECUTION of the things mentioned above.
Whether it's Webber,Button,Massa,Hamilton or whoever,the driver who wins,wins because he EXECUTES in the areas mentioned better than other driver on the day.
If the winner spent much of his time looking at his speed,do you think he would win?Absolutely not!!!!

How the hell do you guys expect to get into the elite level if your looking at your speed(account balance/%)all the time.
Concentrate on EXECUTION and forget about what's happening with the movement in this.......$$$$$$$$$.

Money has a BAD effect on each one of us and manipulates us in a negative way.From a young age our environment and experiences teach us that money is the most important thing.

Here's another illustration:
A young boy is with his mother in the supermarket.He wishes to buy a toy and has his heart set on it(god bless his little cotton socks lol).His mother though bursts his bubble by telling him no.She says:"Jack,your father and i don't have much money.I'm sorry,but you cannot get that,maybe next time".Yeah right,there is no next time we all know that lol.
Jack has just been taught the value of having money,the joy it brings and the sadness for lack of it(he remembers and associates lack of money with sadness).Jack is just 2 years old.Money,now,in Jack's mind, is the most important thing in life.It buys happiness.Period.

Family members kill each other for the stuff.Man-o-Man,we as a race in general have got it all up the wrong way.Need i say anymore.

Focus on trading for EXECUTION and not execution for moneyX2
X2 indicates reading more than once.The more the better.I will post again tomorrow.Easy does it.
Think about the points above and you have just grown some more.
If you already knew this then it's a reminder.We all need these.
If there is one trait as a human that has helped me it's this......HUMILITY.
A humble person NEVER stops learning.
Take care and have a good weekend.

Cheers
Steve

PS:I am of the view that over posting in a forum is equal to shooting off at the mouth.Most people talk too much and don't listen enough.
Guys,it's good to post and clarify but over doing it is wasting your time.I am not sure about you,but i have 100 years at best.Wasting time isn't a good idea.
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  #107  
Old Aug 29, 2009 7:57am
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LOL.
There's another one.Another one that gets me going lol.
I will put some out of their misery....timeframe doesn't matter.I would advise you expect less.
A 3 wood will hit the ball further than a 9 iron.If you expect a 9 iron to hit the ball further than a 3 wood,then you either don't know anything about golf,or your Happy Gilmore.
Your edge will decay with time.A new one will arise and the process starts all over again.There is a window.You need to get yourself into that window before most.The quicker you are,the more you make,the less risk you take(if any).
When you get in early,everyone is your best friend.
Enjoy.
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  #110  
Old Aug 29, 2009 8:04am
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Quote:
The discussion on order flow seems to be drying up in this thread, maybe there's less to be said about it than some people originally thought!
pip,there is a good reason for that.
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  #115  
Old Aug 29, 2009 8:31am
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Quote:
Great sport analogies by the way, I loved the F1 speedometer-watcher one, brilliant!
pip,don't worry when i start on analogies i don't stop lol.
There will be another tomorrow.

Quote:
what is the reason?
You run the risk of that inefficiency becoming efficient again.
You lose the edge.The players(market participants) 'may' then change operations to close it up.I think personally it's a bit rich,i mean at the end of the day,operators NEED to manage things a certain way to get business done,but you just never know,if enough traders know and these operators find that it's cutting into them,then a change could be made in the way they operate.
This all comes back to market structure.The players and their operations.

I'm off guys catch you tomorrow.
Cheers
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  #143  
Old Aug 30, 2009 6:29am
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Default excellent contribution guys

Well Peeps,i asked for quality top to bottom and you have delivered thus far.
The quality of any thread depends on each one of us contributing and moving it forward.Your all doing that so I'm more than happy.
Great posts guys,so pat on the back.
Remember,i am here to open the lid on the box,i won't be pulling anyone out of it.

Just quickly,i was though a little offended by Larry's statement he made below:
Quote:
'parasitic traders'
I resent that Larry,take that back LOL.Front runner,well,i guess i can live with that.

I told you guys it is what you 'cannot' see.

99% of retail traders stop at price.If you stop at price you just haven't gone far enough.
Price has it's place,don't get me wrong,but she lags I'm afraid.
With every tick made,it is H-I-S-T-O-R-I-C-A-L data.
You need to trade out in front.

@Scotty
Quote:
It's kind of a funny thing anyways. If you are a profitable trader and have some edge then in a round about way you are profiting from the underlying orderflow, without ever really seeing it or realizing it.
LOL.Makes me laugh everytime.
This is a classic Scotty.Before i 'understood',i would put a trade on every now and then and she would be golden from the get go,never looked back.
When your trading blind you really think that it was your system/your edge that you had devised that cut it out for you.HA,what a big joke that is.Talk about no idea.

Quote:
Large traders are especially vulnerable to order anticipators.
Remember me saying this scotty?
Quote:
For the big players,they NEED to place orders,they have no choice.You and I though,it's more of a want thing.We are not forced to do business unless we want too.This is an edge in itself,another one.Think about what this means.
Hint:we get too watch the big nutcases push capital around.But we need not get involved until we know the hand.
@SP
Quote:
What I know they are doing is looking for as close to a sure thing as they can get. It is possible to do this, but it takes a lot of self control to wait for price to reach those areas where orders are likely piling up. You can front run these areas with a touch trade and a fairly short SL, but you'd better practice that for a good long time first.
That's it SP.Remember my earlier posts:
Quote:
4.The one way market.This is like the roulette wheel that has only black numbers and you get to bet black all day and win.
Quote:
Once you KNOW and UNDERSTAND,using a stop seems silly because price can only go ONE WAY.
Quote:
i NEVER enter a trade unless i can see the plays,no see play,no play game.simple.there are guys out there that bet one play a year or even over a few years,but when they bet they know their hand and others hand,and squeeze like hell.
imho the average trader bets to often on plays they no nothing about.
Quote:
I call them liquidity.
Yes,sweet sweet liquidity lol.
This is why i must be careful about what i disclose SP.BTW,if someone 'gets' it,then go and help yourself to the market and count yourself blessed.

Just quickly guys on timeframes.Don't get all worked up over the 'right' timeframe to trade.
Here is why:
Orderflow does not favour timeframe.She is a friend of them all.

I was going to bash out another analogy but over the last couple of days i have not been feeling well and I am severely sleep deprived.
I won't be in tomorrow but will be back Tuesday.
Take care peeps.

Cheers
sk

PS:articles will be enligtening for some.Thanks for directing folk to these Scotty,SP and capitalist(nice work).
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  #149  
Old Aug 30, 2009 6:50am
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@Scotty
Quote:
If you are profitable trading blind (just chart data), you did infact profit thanks to orderflow... It goes round and round...It's orderflow that moves price, not any system..If you can see the orderflow, and are 'quick as lightning' you are golden.
Nothing wrong with this Scotty.
You just need to get yourself ahead.No problems there.

@pip
Quote:
Damn, I had a book running on which sport was going to be next, my bet was fishing

Hope you feel better soon, enjoy the rest of your weekend.....
don't close your book pip,it is coming.Change your bet though lol.
Thanks for the well wishes and back at you for the good weekend.
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  #152  
Old Aug 30, 2009 6:54am
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Default operation????

@Limstylz/Scotty

How does pip operate?
Do you know?If you do,then your golden.If you don't then pip might play you guys and cut you out lol.

cheers
sk
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  #302  
Old Sep 2, 2009 3:42am
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Hi Boys/Girls,

Sorry about the little attention i have been giving this thread.
I have a lot going on in my personal life right now and cannot offer to much more here,in fact,Shamus's picture thread will have to wait also.
I look back and i see a forex round table with intelligent debate and good research.You guys have done well and you will be better off for it.

I will say one last thing:Do your due diligence!!!
If anyone thought that trading was as easy as pulling up a chart and placing some squiggly lines on it with a few bells and whistles then your going to do it tough,real tough.
You MUST learn about the 'game' otherwise your trading blind.
Study market structure and then meditate upon what you read.Find that dark room and ponder.It will serve you well.
And yes,darkstar said it best.
Take care everyone and enjoy the journey.My work is done here.

Cheers
sk
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  #659  
Old Sep 27, 2009 7:47am
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threads gone ballistic....shoot i have some back reading to do.
i have been in real estate mode so apologies for my lack of being here in this thread,it does seem though you guys have made well.
I do apologise for not answering anyone's questions directly.

Quote:
common sense tells me that Darkstar has every reason in the world to mislead.
Quote:
Darkstar's either misleading (his best response [since trading is a zero sum game]) or he's just really generous and doesn't mind the thought of sharing his income with the people who ussually supply it.
I had to jump in here.
Scotty,no way is dark misleading.i pretty much shoot from the same pistol.
The 4 points dark has given you guys is BIG.
When you follow point #1,you are now playing like a dealer.When you place stop orders in the wrong places the dealers will gun for them.
They do this because they need to clear inventory.They also do not want to get on the wrong side of real money demand.They do occasionally get caught in one way markets but they will always fight to clear their books.
Who do you think sells you the gbpusd when you and every other retail trader and his dog wants to buy it?The dealer provides you with liquidity but what 90% of retail traders don't realise is that although he gives you this service it will also be your death.
Imagine playing a game of poker where you play against someone who can see all hands and doesn't show theirs.This is what's going on in the world of fx.The foreign currency market was never designed for retail trade,it's a professionals market.

Just to back up Darks #2 point.Just this week there was a 'one touch' option play on the usdjpy(love this pair) at 90.00 which i think was expiring Monday.If you knew this then you would know these guys would drive the usdjpy lower to get the 'one touch' and payout.You could also come to the conclusion that if they did gun for the 90.00 then they would have likely dried up much of the limit buys resting there,weakening that level and you pretty much could have bet the house that the usdjpy was not going to hold 90 heading into the weekend.And looky what happened.....
Dark spins no bull@#*!.

When you get good at this you can place trades and the market barely moves against you.I agree with Dark,it takes time and knowledge(operators and orders they place).With time comes intuition,you get a feel for things.He has given you most of the tools you need.

@Hanover.
Dave,you made mention of order types.Basically,instead of thinking in terms of price i took it one step further to what drives price.I then came to the conclusion that if i could nut out what was going on with regards orderflow then i would be golden.And golden i am.

It's all about ORDERS.Use quality sources to anticipate orderflow,look ahead of price,don't get stuck with it.

Last edited Sep 27, 2009 8:51am
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  #673  
Old Sep 27, 2009 6:45pm
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Quote:
there is no edge in orderflow.
I believe an edge is what you make of something.If it enhances your bottom line(provided it is driven by common sense and not fluff) ,then no harm no foul.If it breaks down then its unlikely the edge was built upon something solid.I say this with uppermost respect dt.

Quote:
Work on the premise that if a bank has to unload in a rising market, it will do so - regardless of price. Otherwise, buy as long as the market moves up until it stops going up - and vice versa for shorts.
This is always what i lay anything else on,it's a solid base.Trade with real money demand/supply.That way you avoid being on the 'wrong side'.
As an example,last week i made my preference to mainly be a buyer of yens(i only trade the majors)and it served me well.
I then lay other things onto the base i have created to improve the probability of success.What you lay on 'the base' is up to you.But make sure the base is there.

Quote:
No offence to the OP intended.
The OP has taken no offense.We all have words to share dt and you are entitled to share yours.I am sure that along with myself others here find it helpful when guys with experience chime in.(Nice to see Dark back out of the shadows.I apologise if i brought you out against your want).

In a final word,everybody here and anywhere else must do his/her own due diligence.If you don't,then expect to fail.
The road i choose to walk my not be best for someone else.We all have control over the road we decide to go down and whatever happens then we must remember,that we are where we are,because we did what we did.
Take it easy all.
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