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  #15  
Old Aug 27, 2009 12:24pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default excellent thread..

this is exactly the sort of thing I am looking at. Please can you post some current charts from last week etc.

Thanks J
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  #98  
Old Aug 29, 2009 7:17am
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
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been looking for information regarding this subject and found this. Seems to be what Steve is looking at in the charts.

http://transcripts.fxstreet.com/2008...what-is-r.html

cheers J
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  #293  
Old Sep 1, 2009 1:28pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default well done..

Scotty for all your hard work that you have done, it has been great reading what you have come up with.

Golf is similar to trading for me, in that most of the time you compete against yourself even when you play against others.

I too have always thought that there MUST be something else behind the charts, as I am another one who has spent ridiculous amount of time studying them when I should have been playing golf instead!! but failed to find the missing piece.

Just wondering what the image of the woodworker was for..is that a clue?

Keep up the good work, perseverance will hopefully pay off in the end

cheers J
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  #313  
Old Sep 2, 2009 5:43pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
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have found this but can't access the webinar on forexpros.com...

Exploiting Order Flow and Liquidation Pressure by
Jason Alan Jankovsky

Exploiting Order Flow and Liquidation Pressure Hosted by:
Exploiting Order Flow and Liquidation Pressure Hosted by:
Provides a better understanding of why zero-sum markets trade the way they do and provides insight to better take positions. Details on why price action is almost liquidation of losing positions and how that creates the order flow needed to win.

If anyone can get hold of this it may be of benefit to the thread??

Cheers J
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  #347  
Old Sep 3, 2009 9:54am
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default new charts required...

perhaps we should start by posting our charts, similar to the ones Steve posted at the start of the thread and letting other people comment on them. If enough people are 'seeing' the same thing then we might be moving in the right direction.

Here is one I was watching.. in keeping with the thread the plan would have been to buy at trendline support with a stop and reverse where the down arrow is. I 'presume' this is where most traders going long at this point would have put their stop loss.


When I was watching this I expected the big traders to push this down just enough to get the 'new sellers in' and then push it back up but they didn't. Why not???

Comment anyone?

Cheers J
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  #357  
Old Sep 3, 2009 5:54pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default well done

Skracor, for finding 'it'....which charts were you specifically looking at to have found it?

Cheers J
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  #360  
Old Sep 3, 2009 8:20pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default new charts

Hi Skracor, thanks for replying.

I think for this thread to move forward we need people to post charts of set ups as seen in the first post from the thread starter.
We can then make judgements on what all of us should be seeing.
The more charts we see the more we will understand from a visual point of view what we should be looking for.
I'm hoping that the more people that post their charts the more that 'IT' should become evident??

Cheers J
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  #450  
Old Sep 5, 2009 2:37pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
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Hi Guys,
I have just read through all the posts that the OP has posted and not once does he say that HE is using the orderbook, he says it 'can be done' without the chart but he does not say that he uses it.

Where are the posts from the OP describing how to interpet the orderbook data...there are none.
I have opened a two week demo from Dukascopy which contains the orderbook feature and to be quite frank it really is just numbers moving up and down and flashing. To read it properly and interpret it correctly would need lots of watching intently for months.
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  #453  
Old Sep 5, 2009 3:04pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default furthermore

As orderflow is obviously the reason for all price action in the market ie pinbar formation bouncing off support etc etc it is easy to say that that is the reason why the pinbar formed, of course it is ..orderflow leads to price action.
What I'm trying to say here is that I think the way the OP is using the word orderflow is misleading as there is no evidence in any of his posts to suggest that he is reading it.

If I wanted to teach people about orderflow why would I post charts?
If I wanted to teach people about PA which results from orderflow I would post charts.

Something just doesn't feel right now, anyone else thinking the same thing??

Cheers J
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  #462  
Old Sep 5, 2009 4:09pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default think...

Hi Jpat,

I think you have identified the confusion in the direction of the thread.
The direction was heading towards 'reading' orderflow using the orderbook but you are right, judging from the OP's first post we should just be 'thinking' in terms of the orderflow.

I can't wait 'till Monday either because then you can post some examples for us and say:

'look there it is, why can't you see it you fools.. ' ha ha
might help with your frustration

Cheers J
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  #485  
Old Sep 6, 2009 12:57am
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
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Good quote from Scotty:

I think the guys who trade orderflow have more than rumors. If you are not trading with a chart you are trading with an orderbook as Sk has confirmed when I asked about volume data or orderbook data. If you don't have real information about real orders, than this whole orderflow thing can be boiled down to simple price action, S/R, and pattern trading. If there are no orders to view, then you are not trading orderflow.

Quote from the OP April 30TH 2009

When i enter the market(I'M A TREND TRADER)i am looking for an entry with the least possible risk i can(i'm not psychic i can only use price as a guide).That means entering the trend at the best price possible.
I guess an example would be,if you went down to the supermarket and purchased bananas you know roughly what to expect.If the price tag displyed 10.00/kg then you would shop elsewhere as you know better,thats a damn rip off..

Only a few months ago the op was a trend trader and now on his profile page his preferred method of trading is: Front running.
So in a very short time he has become proficient enough to become an orderflow front runner?? Surely it's not that easy as the whole trading community would know making it obsolete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hensch
Just my opinion, but I think what we are trying to read here is how to ride on the market movers coat tails, not trying to predict what the may be doing.

So we still have to let the dust settle and discover the missing pieces of this puzzle


Originally Posted by hensch
Just my opinion, but I think what we are trying to read here is how to ride on the market movers coat tails, not trying to predict what the may be doing.

So we still have to let the dust settle and discover the missing pieces of this puzzle.


quote aston dan:
Apologies, my misunderstanding then.

If that is the case, then to be honest, i fail to see how this takes us any further beyond Price Action 101.

For me, the value on reading order flow is in being placed to front-run the orders which actually move the market.

quote op:

when you get congestion forming,then wait till the market shows its hand,if you cannot see the hand crystal clear,then fold.

You need to understand the WHITE SPACE and what's in it.

congestion forming, white space.... front runners don't use charts do they?

The OP has said he has been busting his nuts pouring over charts for hours and hours, surely you would be busting your nut over the orderbook and the tape wouldn't you, after all this thread is about 'orderflow' isn't it.

to quote hensch:
Just my opinion, but I think what we are trying to read here is how to ride on the market movers coat tails, not trying to predict what the may be doing.

not orderflow trading, not front running just coat tailing the pros after the market has showed her hand.

Cheers J
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  #553  
Old Sep 9, 2009 10:57am
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default example

Since watching the video of Sam Seidon I have set up my charts with areas of supply and demand. I have attached an example of retail sellers getting in the market and the big guys happy to exchange the trades.
Institutions are selling at 153 then buying at 151.75 whilst retail are selling with possible stoploss at 152.40.
Assuming this plays out price will accelerate after hitting their stops into the supply area where the pros will decide whether to take profit or add longs above 153.

Let's see what happens, and is this orderflow trading or just supply and demand??

Cheers J
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  #631  
Old Sep 25, 2009 7:09pm
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
Default options

Quote from Darkster

Not to be a stickler for accuracy, but this isn't orderflow trading. All your doing is commenting on market mechanics.

I have read most of Darkstar's posts and if we want to try and emulate what he is doing we have to use the orderbook as this is what he uses, nothing to do with charts.

The thread starter showed us some chart examples of 'thinking' in terms of orderflow but in my opinion this is just price action as we cannot see what orders in terms of volume were being traded, as others have said we are just guessing after the fact.

Darkstar has spent 4000 hours figuring this out so it's not going to be easy is it, and quite rightly he's not going to show anyone as he has spent so much time perfecting his strategy.

But the information that I gather from reading his posts are:

he uses the order book and nothing else
he does not trade very often (he has lots of spare time)
he knows where the stops are
he talks a lot about options
he makes a lot of money.

I assume from all this that he only trades when a specific option is minutes away from expiry and that price at expiration would be on a significant support or resistance level or simply one with oo or 50 as this is where most retail traders have their stops.
Then he will look at the orders that are being placed and which orders are disappearing from the order book :

here is my made up example
eur/usd is trading at 1.4 and price moves down to 1.3950 so now the retail traders decide to sell, they all think that since it has fallen 50 pips they will place their stop at 1.4
they don't know that an option is expiring in 30 minutes at 1.4
the informed trader sees the price approaching 1.4 and places a buy order 5 pips beyond the strike price.
At 10.26 the price is 9 pips away from the strike price and large trades are now being 'seen' in the order book.
At 10.30 the price moves through 1.4 triggering the retail stops and the informed trader has his order filled. With such a large concentration of stops on the other side price shoots 10-15 pips and the informed trader closes the trade.

This is pure speculation and maybe a million miles away from the truth but what would be interesting is to get historical option expiration prices say for eur/usd and place these strike prices on a chart, then examine what happened to price at these particular points.

If anyone thinks this is an avenue worth exploring we need someone who knows which options are 'valuable' .
Just a thought.

Cheers J
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  #743  
Old Oct 25, 2009 9:13am
There is no Holy Grail in my mirror
 
Member Since Jul 2007
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Hi Fugly,

Not many on this forum ever posts their statements and I too have questioned that in the past, but I have read most of Darkstar's posts and have come to the conclusion that he really knows his stuff.

Of course, it all comes down to what you believe but as you have said without statements there still remains doubt for some.

What is interesting to note is that even though Darkstar has given what he thinks is vital information to people on this thread, no one has followed it through. Which leads to me to think that without proper teaching of orderflow it is as difficult to trade as chart reading.

Another thing that has me thinking that charts alone areren't good enough is that why do 95% of would be traders lose when they try to interpet charts, is it because they cannot see the orderbook.
Why do firms offer free charts but not include the orderbook....?

Cheers J
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