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  #791  
Old Mar 13, 2010 9:29am
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Originally Posted by Scotty B View Post
I've learned a heck of a lot and am still plugging away, but have not found whatever it is you do. You're a legend around here man, even on google itself. The essays you penned about spreads and the structuring of FX brokers is scattered all over the place. Anyways...
It seems you haven't read the "practitioners point of views". (uuups, sorry, it seems you have...and you liked it too ....was saying that because the "essays" you referred to were somewhat extractions from the book, if i remember correctly ...damn, maybe i'm just full of it )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty B View Post
I am of the mindset that if I keep studying and quit asking for the answers that I'll 'make it.' Gaston said a couple of times that he made it by way of a curious mind and the ability to ask the right questions. I like that and I am inclined to beleive him.

Don't get me wrong though, I belevie I have found some very curious and peculiar things, but I wouldn't put 12.5% of my account on any of it. What you shared here a while back as this thread was winding down was mostly [b][u][color=Red]criteria that most of us would not be able to pull...
i believe you're definitely right when it comes to order flow and its availability to the public and that it's a major advantage to the player who has it. And why wouldn't it be when you thing about the general principle of markets: if you expect to win someone has to lose.

Don't get me wrong thinking that: "if i could just get my hands on it...". When you throw the info to a total noob with no market knowledge nor experience he/she could do nothing with it. Furthermore, THERE ARE publicly available so called "order flow reports" out there but that's for gauging the bigger picture not trading the daily "noise". You still have to understand who and why are trading (moving) the markets. (heh, easy for me to say, this subject gets me confused too, but i am working desperately day in and out to figure at least something out.)

Also, I don't know if it's just me but the more i trade the more i feel the pchycological side of trading. And not the pchycology you hear in the media where thousands of books are sold saying you must have a winning attitude and blablabla. For me, it has solely come from experience. If you have blown up your account you get the feeling. If you keep adding to a loser waiting for the market to turn YOU GET THE FEELING. No matter what the books say you don't know what it's like to be pregnant and have a baby if you are a dude .

With order flow you don't bet on the mathematical probability of market movement you literally have a REASON to buy or sell at a certain level. Those are the reasons I'm after.

Given the above you could profit handsomely having a risk adjusted position.

It seems Darkstar has both, the resources as well the ability. You could do (i believe) without the resources but not without the other. Coupled with the ability to understand the fundamentals and the economy as a whole and knowing how to put fundamental value together with market value - and you have yourself a trader.

Anyways, it's great to have you around again Darkstar and thanks for posting and yes, i am still interested in the subject

Last edited Mar 13, 2010 12:42pm
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  #983  
Old Jun 14, 2011 7:26am
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Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
So unless or until a document can be found that describes that concept outline above (under any name), I'm going to continue to believe that I created it, from scratch, on my own, and taught it (directly or indirectly) to everyone who is currently engaged in the discipline.
hmm...fair enough:

Back in the day a FF member Mysticgenie talked about how he traded the COT report in one of his thought-provoking threads. Long story short he anticipated an extreme positionings in the report and then used technical picture to construct a possible scenario of where the orders would come in to "take out the air" of that COT extreme. One way of engaging in OF TRADING.


A FF member FTI (a (former)bank trader, if i remember correctly) used to talk about the "sitting ducks" pretty often which is a term for open stop orders and thus exploited the stop-hunting scenarios. So with that, the stop-hunting type of OF trading is covered (i'm not going into market makers/exploiting the order book scenarios).


If that's not enough, which it probably isn't, then one FF member BillyRayValentine is the closest you can get (as far as i'm familiar and excluding you of course) in terms of using different OF trading "strategies". He was actually the one who introduced to us (me) about the existence of IFR, option market - barriers, exotics, sentiment from options...When he gave an explanation he always looked at the market in multiple ways including order board, options, fundies and techs. In fact, he gave out great ideas of how to look at the market technically and how he, for example, drew horisontal lines which actually make sense even with "technically induced order flow" mindset. I hope that, since i mentioned IFR, options, fundies and techs in one paragraph, i don't have to go into details of how this all relates to exploiting future trader behaviour.


Then there's this member SKFX and the other guy i can't remember. Now, if you are confident that all these members i mentioned got the idea and knowledge of order flow trading FROM YOU then i can fully agree that you are the sole creator of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
Order Flow Trading is a metagame analysis technique for predicting future trader behavior.
And how does that happen exactly ? In the COT example and BillyRayValentine example, to me, it's only obvious that they are anticipating the future trader behaviour.



Now, as far the explanation part, the learning part goes then this is something else. This is where i 100% agree that you have taken the most effort to teach the mindset of OF trading and are continuing to do it with your upcoming book. The ease of understanding and the simplicity of whatever you are saying is beyond anybody and i believe this happens in what...one out of a million...To me, this shows true intelligence.
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  #984  
Old Jun 14, 2011 7:56am
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Originally Posted by Adal View Post
I think a better analogy would be that Deutsche Bank is doing "DB Order Flow Trading (TM)", while you are doing "Darkstar Order Flow Trading (TM)". Both use most of the same building blocks (knowing or guessing current positions, future flows, stop locations, sentiment, liquidity gaps, ....) but arranged in a different and proprietary way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adal View Post
Strictly by this definition fading a bubble is order-flow trading - you see that everybody is buying, is getting long and then you anticipate their hasty exit. Some of the trades in "Reminiscence of a ..." also fit this description. I'll venture saying that what most people here assume is order-flow trading existed before 2006, but not under this umbrella name.
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  #987  
Old Jun 14, 2011 11:34am
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Relax bro, i'm not attacking you


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Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
The good news is that I have a complete copy of that thread, which I will be posting to my blog in the next few days (need to strip all the FF formatting from the content).
that's good to know.


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Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
I am sure many of you are thinking that I'm talking out my ass about creating this stuff.
Many ARE thinking that. And mainly because the enviousness that surrounds their minds when they read it.

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Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
However, I know in the deepest recesses of my soul that I did.
As much as i know you, that is already good enough for me.


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Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
I know this because in 2006 I read EVERY SINGLE THREAD that existed on FF.
wow, that's pretty crazy. And that should've been the FIRST argument to start with (although, yes, i understand that this wasn't your point to start actively proving your position in the first place).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
So feel free to look long and look hard for something that will prove me wrong. I have no trouble with you trying because I KNOW you’re not going to find anything.
I wasn't looking/searching in the first place and neither am i going to waste my time on that BS. Those were merely the first names that came up to my head when i thought about it (and thus thought about my "career" here on FF ). As i said before, if you deeply believe in the creation of OF trading then it's already good enough for me. Period.
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  #989  
Old Jun 14, 2011 2:31pm
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Originally Posted by nasir.khan View Post
Or you could've said "sorry i was wrong".

Yeah i know i should not expect this on public forums.
.

was that directed at me ?

if so, then where exactly was i wrong ?
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